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n



Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 211
Location: Lothian
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 06 10:31 pm    Post subject: milk  Reply with quote    

Ever since I saw the tv programme about intensive milk production, we have bought organic milk.
I heard a few days ago on Radio Scotland that most organic milk is imported from the continent.
Dilemma.
Do I buy organic milk which is more ethically produced, or non organic which reduces airmiles/sea miles?
If I buy organic, am I actually encouraging UK production of organic, or simply stimulating continental production and encouraging even more air/sea miles.
We have, after much family discussion, decided that unless organic fruit and veg is "down the road", we won't bother with it as we think that food miles matter more than organics, and at 42 and 47 we are so stuffed with pesticides anyway we'll be preserved till we are about 150 anyway. We think that fairtrade matters more than organics.
What does everyone else think?
n

wishus



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 769
Location: Northampton, East Midlands
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 06 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I buy organic - maybe not the lesser of 2 evils, but at least it still has most of the nutrients.

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 06 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It's a dilema, but I go for local - it's not organic, but it tastes like real milk.

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41859
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 06 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm far more concerned about buying local than buying Organic in general. It doesn't really work for milk, but I can buy locally (or distantly in the case of RobR's mutton) produced meat and veg which have been produced in a way that I'm happy with even if they haven't got the badge.

gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18377

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 06 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

After FMD (for some reason) a lot of dairy farmers in the UK decided to convert to organic (probably to get the price premium). So many, that the organic milk market was 'saturated', and a lot of UK organic milk had to be mixed in with and sold as non-organic. Then quite a few farmers went back to producing conventional milk.

I know that at least one of the big supermarkets now gets its organic milk from the UK. Will check out which and report back.

gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18377

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 06 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

After FMD (for some reason) a lot of dairy farmers in the UK decided to convert to organic (probably to get the price premium). So many, that the organic milk market was 'saturated', and a lot of UK organic milk had to be mixed in with and sold as non-organic. Then quite a few farmers went back to producing conventional milk.

I know that at least one of the big supermarkets now gets its organic milk from the UK. Will check out which and report back.

Lyds



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 41
Location: South Hams, Devon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 06 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'd rather go for local anyday - I think the whole idea of organic at any cost defies logic. It has to be better to eat a locally grown potato - non organic than a foreign organic one. What a waste of fuel. Which is why I use my local greengrocer and not the supermarket. My Gg tries to get things as local as poss and delivers to my door - what more can one ask?
Buying local is really important to me - we need to keep our local communities alive and kicking - driving 15 miles to Morrisons to 'save' a few quid wont do that. I know the biggies have more choice but, are we really any better off because we have 16 brands of beans to choose from?

Sarah D



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 06 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Very lucky here in that I can get organic and local from Manor Farm at Godmanstone, and Rachel's Dairy fromt he milkman. Best of all worlds, and the waxed cartons make excellent soap moulds and soup containers, flower pots, etc

JB



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7746
Location: 91 N
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 06 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Waitrose sell organic milk that they explicitly state is from the UK (somewhere in the southwest but I forget where exactly)

Miff



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 06 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There are some very interesting facts about the organic milk market here:

http://www.omsco.co.uk/pdfs/media/MarketReportFinal.pdf

One that stood out was that:

"Sales of organic liquid milk have grown consistently at 30% per year up to 2004/05, but have since accelerated dramatically. In the 12 weeks to November 2005, sales had jumped by 91% year on year."

I guess that TV programme (think it was Dispatches) had a big impact.

Fee



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 15902
Location: Surrey Heath
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 06 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Sarah D wrote:
...and Rachel's Dairy fromt he milkman. Best of all worlds, and the waxed cartons make excellent soap moulds and soup containers, flower pots, etc


We get Rachel's too, and sometimes the one with Bill Oddie on planting free trees in the local area for every so many cartons you buy...White and Wild I think it's called.

Miff wrote:
There are some very interesting facts about the organic milk market here:

http://www.omsco.co.uk/pdfs/media/MarketReportFinal.pdf


Velly interesting. I never saw that dispatches programme about the milk, I remember you saying about it, I just prefer to be buying organic milk than not...in fact, it's been a long time since we bought anything but organic milk.

Going back to the original question though, I wouldn't even consider buying imported milk and would go for British non-organic over imported organic, however, that article suggests that demand is going to outweigh supply of organic milk if the market trend contines as is expected. Hopefully it'll spur more dairies into becoming organic.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19830
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 06 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Isn't that typical I have never seen Rachels milk here and we live right next to the farm! I will go and have another look.

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14947
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 06 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We get manor farm from the box schem, but save the cartons, sarah - there was a note that they won't be able to supply them in cartons soon (something to do with the cost of outsourcing the packaging) It's only temporay though, and the plastic bottles make very good soup freezing, sccops and storing all sorts of things which don't fit in coffee jars (porridge oats, and salt and other stuff)

Waitrose do Moo! organic milk, which is UHT UK produced - might be worth looking into for anyone who can't get fresh (I keep it in full cream for custard!)

jamsam



Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: erm....i dont know, its dark.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 06 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

i had the same dilemma, do i buy local or organic???
i soon found that a large percentage of local is organis anyway so i decided to reduce food miles before tackling the world pesticide addiction.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 06 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Local for me, glass bottles from Pat Mustard the milkman.

Cows are one of the more extensive breeds, so it's not something I worry about too much. Save your cash for organic pork & chicken.

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