Home Page
   Articles
       links
About Us    
Traders        
Recipes            
Latest Articles
Slugs
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Foraging
Author 
 Message
cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

judyofthewoods wrote:
I think any animal can harbour parasites and pathogens, whether livestock, wild mamals, birds, fish, insects, molusks, arachnoids (now I've got you worried, eh?) and more. I would not eat any meat unless it was well cooked, or specially individually inspected by a vet for the purpose of raw consumption - something they practice in Germany with beef for a very delicious raw mince. Though thinking about it, don't the Japanese eat raw fish? What is their average life expectancy? They do seem to benefit from keeping their hair colour into old age (grey hair is in part due to a lack of tyrosinase, an enzime used to digest the amino acid tyrosene, and probably only present in appreciable quantities in foods containing the amino acid, so cooking protein foods deprives you of that enzyme). Mmmm, where is that chocolate.....


Well,yes. Anything -can- be contaminated with -something-. That's true. but for a -virus- to pass from a mollusc to a person would be remarkable, to say the least.

Remember that, for the most part, muscle tissue is clean. Not a lot in there that can be parasitic. So a rare steak isn't a problem. That said, as soon as you cut or mince something up, any exposed surface is best considered contaminated; as a result, you're probably better not eating a rare burger!

Sushi, prepared well, is safe. Nothing but fish muscle tissue with extra flavours added,when it comes down to it.

Molluscs, expecially the gastropods, are a bit different; the muscle tissue and guts are so bound that there's no point thinking about what is or isn't what; you purge them if they're likely to need purging, starve them if they need starving, and cook them.

judyofthewoods



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Trichinosis in pork, for example springs to mind, encapsulated in muscle tissue. Not being an expert knowing which animals could harbour which parasite I'd rather be safe than sorry and cook well. Though cooked food is not the healthiest way of eating. I'ts all compromise, choosing which is the lesser of the evals.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

judyofthewoods wrote:
Trichinosis in pork, for example springs to mind, encapsulated in muscle tissue. Not being an expert knowing which animals could harbour which parasite I'd rather be safe than sorry and cook well. Though cooked food is not the healthiest way of eating. I'ts all compromise, choosing which is the lesser of the evals.


Some meats, like pork, are more problematic than others. Same's true for chicken, but for different reasons.

Do you cook your beef so thoroughly too?

judyofthewoods



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I cook meat well, though I do occasionally eat the raw mince, called Tatar (spelling??), in Germany, and you may be surprised to hear that I have eaten raw eggs regularly since childhood with no ill effects. I might be wrong, but I suspect the only thing you can get from eggs is bacterial infections, e.g. salmonella, and I probably have all the antibodies I need from 40 odd years exposure. Won't touch shellfish any longer, had an unpleasant bug from that, and shellfish often live in polluted shallow waters.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28100
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

judyofthewoods wrote:
I cook meat well, though I do occasionally eat the raw mince, called Tatar (spelling??), in Germany, and you may be surprised to hear that I have eaten raw eggs regularly since childhood with no ill effects. I might be wrong, but I suspect the only thing you can get from eggs is bacterial infections, e.g. salmonella, and I probably have all the antibodies I need from 40 odd years exposure. Won't touch shellfish any longer, had an unpleasant bug from that, and shellfish often live in polluted shallow waters.


Tartar?

Ain't too keen on raw steak myself, tend to east it raw sometimes though, as I do aim for very bloody rare and sometimes miss.

jema

judyofthewoods



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The German delicacy is a very fine grade of minced meat (I am fairly sure its beef), eaten raw with chopped onions, a little salt and pepper, as a sandwich spread. It is so delicate, it melts on the tongue. But only the most vigorously inspected meat can be sold for that purpose.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28100
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mince is much more dangerour raw than steak because of the extra surface area for bacteria to get in.

jema

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 05 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Recipe for "German Steak Tartare"
https://www.recipezaar.com/108421
... and note that we have a raw egg yolk in there too!

Its just the sort of thing that I'd think would be a "Public Health" test of a restaurant. I'd rather control my own risks...

BTW there seems to be some connection with Hamburg, seemingly leading to the Hamburger...

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 05 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

judyofthewoods wrote:
I cook meat well, though I do occasionally eat the raw mince, called Tatar (spelling??), in Germany, and you may be surprised to hear that I have eaten raw eggs regularly since childhood with no ill effects. I might be wrong, but I suspect the only thing you can get from eggs is bacterial infections, e.g. salmonella, and I probably have all the antibodies I need from 40 odd years exposure. Won't touch shellfish any longer, had an unpleasant bug from that, and shellfish often live in polluted shallow waters.


Steak tartar is best prepared from good steak, rather than mince, which has a big, big mashed up surface area.

Eggs can be dangerous, but it really depends. Don't worry unduly, but don't let yourself be fooled into assuming that an antibody response you have will protect you from salmonellosis, as it won't. It's good to avoid eggs if you're immunosuppressed or elderly, but these days the colony count of salmonella in eggs is a tiny, tiny fraction of what it was.

I still eat shellfish from clean water, and provided they're cooked properly there's very little risk.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 05 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Cab wrote:
Steak tartar is best prepared from good steak, rather than mince, which has a big, big mashed up surface area.

Cab don't time and temperature also have a significant role to play?
(I know mincing heats the meat)
In my "restaurant" comment above, I was thinking as much of the dish sitting around (potentially for hours), vs lack of that at home, as of general catering hygene practices.
I hope no one would think of using bought-in mince, rather than mincing as part of the dish preparation...

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 05 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The problem with minced meat is that you should normally consider the outside surface of any meat as contaminated. Cooking the outside can NORMALLY be considered to make the meat safe (obviously you cook pork and chicken and some other meats all the way through).

If you don't get the outside of the meat, it's still contaminated.

If you mince the outside in with the rest, it's all contaminated. You need to cook it all. That's why some restaurants ask you to sign a form if you insist on a rare burger.

If you're looking to eat it raw, then you're going to have to be very sure of your hygeine standards. Obviously, if you leave it minced then the degree of condamination is going to be worse (especially if you leave it warm!

mochyn



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 05 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

When I was a chef I regularly prepared steak tartare, using only fillet steak and chopping by hand, rahter than mincing. Each plate had the steak in a neat little mound with a half egg shell containing the yolk on top, and heaps of chopped cornichons (small gerkins), capers and onion around it. Absolutely yummy, but I think I would now eat it only at home.

As for slugs & snails, on monday I saw a display in the Wensleydaly Cheese Museum which said that slugs & snails used to be boiled up and the liquor used as an alternative to rennet. Hmm...

judyofthewoods



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 05 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

OK, back on topic with this one. Just received my Permaculture magazine today, and someone suggests a novel use for sluggs. You pop them in the oven at Gas Mark 4 (or equivalent) for five minutes, just long enough they adopt the texture of wine gums, then simply slip a sharp knife under the skin, and it peels off beautifully, like peeling a lychee. The resultant 'peel' is waterproof, flexible and tough. After a few weeks drying and peeling he had enough to make a pair of trousers, sewing them together with a tough twine. His 'slugskin strides' are the talk of Permi gatherings around the land, and he is working on a matching jacket.
I wonder if you could make wellies from them?

judyofthewoods



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 05 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

OK, back on topic with this one. Just received my Permaculture magazine today, and someone suggests a novel use for sluggs. You pop them in the oven at Gas Mark 4 (or equivalent) for five minutes, just long enough they adopt the texture of wine gums, then simply slip a sharp knife under the skin, and it peels off beautifully, like peeling a lychee. The resultant 'peel' is waterproof, flexible and tough. After a few weeks drying and peeling he had enough to make a pair of trousers, sewing them together with a tough twine. His 'slugskin strides' are the talk of Permi gatherings around the land, and he is working on a matching jacket.
I wonder if you could make wellies from them?

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 05 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Post some pix of your slugskin underwear, please Judy?

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Foraging All times are GMT
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4
View Latest Posts View Latest Posts

 

Archive
Powered by php-BB © 2001, 2005 php-BB Group
Style by marsjupiter.com, released under GNU (GNU/GPL) license.
Copyright © 2004 marsjupiter.com