Wind farm ?

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Wind farm ?
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Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 9:22 am Post subject: Wind farm ?

I don't have an alternative answer readily at hand, infact, there might not be an answer to the UK energy problem, but does anyone else think that being able to power 240,000 homes is a very small return for a development on this massive scale?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11395824

One wonders just how much energy has been used in developing, manufacturing, installing and maintaining this installation ? I hate to think.

Lets hope that all the sums have been done correctly and that at sometime in the future the project somehow moves into the black, both environmentally and economically.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 9:26 am Post subject:
Lets see, it cost £780million, so divided by 240,000 homes thats a per home investment of £3250. How many years is that for an average electricity bill to pay off? 10, 15, something like that? Whats the estimated working life of the wind farm?

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 9:28 am Post subject:
I can't really see how utilising the tide isn't as efficient. Its constant pretty much either coming in or out. one thing's for sure, we need to do something fairy soon.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 9:32 am Post subject:

and thats really only the start of what its going to cost Sally.

On a slightly different tack, I wonder how much a nuclear power station would cost to construct, run and then decommision?

Unlike a NP station, at least with a windfarm, there'll be some scrap value when its finished with. Thats surely got to be better than a problem thats never going to go away.

Anyone know how many households there are in the UK approximately?

Last edited by Bodger on Thu Sep 23, 10 9:42 am; edited 3 times in total

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 9:35 am Post subject:

sally_in_wales wrote:

Lets see, it cost £780million, so divided by 240,000 homes thats a per home investment of £3250.

Peanuts.

Quote:

How many years is that for an average electricity bill to pay off? 10, 15, something like that?

A brief google suggests an average 4500kWh/year. At 12p/kWh, that comes to about six years.

Quote:

Whats the estimated working life of the wind farm?

The larger domestic turbines have a design life of 25 years.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 10:07 am Post subject:
I'm with tide theory. There's quite a lot of constant, free movement on this planet, and it's blue and watery. One day we'll sort out how to harness it. It'll kill a few whales and whelks and stuff, but, them's the breaks.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 10:32 am Post subject:
How many times have folks passed by one of the now numerous windfarms that are popping up, only to see the blades not going round ? and this, quite often on days that have semed to be perfect for the job.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 10:34 am Post subject:
Indeed, and yet the tide always seems to be coming or going.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 10:51 am Post subject:
OK, all you tidal advocates, why can't we have both?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:03 am Post subject:
Oh, I have little to say about wind farms, I'm just surprised we've invented nuclear, and other complicated things and ignored the sea.

arvo

Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:09 am Post subject:

The trick, until RichardW comes along with better facts, I believe is getting efficient enough turbines. For rivers its relatively easy, a one way turbine is something we do have existing solutions for. With tidal flow its got to be a solution that runs both ways or bobs or some such and we've still not come up with the killer solution yet. There are crazy tidal snake things in the offing that have just won some kind of contract, so look out for those I guess.

Now why we haven't got a turbine in every stretch of river, that's one that *does* perplex me.

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:10 am Post subject:
We could use the tides to turn the propellers?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:14 am Post subject:

arvo wrote:

Your argument would work if wind turbines dealt with wind that blew in only one direction, but they don't, they turn into the wind. Why couldn't sea based ones do the same?

alice

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 2820

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:29 am Post subject:
The wind turbines are often not turning up here, not because of lack of wind but because at specific times the grid can't/won't cope with the power generated. At other times they break down and they sit there until an engineer wanders over from Germany to fix them.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 10 11:36 am Post subject:

There's going to be huge investment off the north coast of Anglesey soon with tidal power. This is in addition to the replacement nuclear power station for Wylfa and the wind farms just inland. All pretty much rely on being very near coastal regions and none of them are cheap to run. Tidal has to deal with very corrosive conditions and installation cost are likely to be higher than wind although it will be more predictable. We still need to be encouraged to use less.

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