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Naomi



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

What's a daati Tahir?

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
less fuel too (2 slices of toast and some baked beans), quite a bit slower though.


Do the possible greenhouse gas emissions worry you?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Naomi wrote:
What's a daati Tahir?


An Indian hand held scythe, it has a serrated blade.

Naomi



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

If it is serrated how do you sharpen it?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

With a file I think, I'll have to check, I think I'll be able to find someone thats sharpened one before

Mary-Jane



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 18397
Location: The Fishing Strumpet is from Ceredigion in West Wales
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Gervase wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Can they cope with bracken?


Easily. I've used one for clearing bracken, sedge and reeds in Norfolk, and once you get the rhythm right and get used to whetting the blade to refresh the edge after an absurdly small number of strokes, it's a doddle.


I would just like to point out that, like most men, my dear husband thinks he still has the same fitness levels that he had quite a few years ago - which was when he 'easily' cleared the said bracken, sedge and reeds. He sharpened up a scythe here a few months ago and went off manfully into the field with it over his shoulder...and came back exhausted and sweating. Like shearing, it nearly killed him.

He now uses the strimmer.

deanom



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 7:29 pm    Post subject: Scythe Advice Reply with quote
    

Sorry for coming to this thread late, but hadn't been on the forum before.

If anyone wants some information or advice on the use of the Austrian scythe, just ask. I am fairly good at it. Last year I mowed 1 1/2 acres three times by hand, and this year I've just made hay from 1 acre. All my weeds are cleared with it (whenever I have time), and if I decide to grow my own wheat and barley, I will use the scythe for that too.

I,m glad that somebody mentioned the festival. I went last year and had a great time, spoilt by having to leave the same day. this time I'm taking a tent, and staying over.

Hopefully I can help convert a few of you to using a scythe.

I am happy to run a weekend workshop (Sat pm/Sun am) if four or more people want to learn. I don't charge for it, but I get some mowing done free in exchange. Sadly, for it to work, you will need to have your own scythe and peening kit. I don't have any spares.

Bugs



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

If you weren't in Lincolnshire, Deanom, I'd be booking now - or possibly sending TD your way. I do rather like the concept of scythes, on a small scale, they seem a logical solution, and thinking long term, they could come in really useful. I'd look forward to hearing more about how Gil gets on and if you do get anyone here to take you up on your offer - I love the way you get "paid" too (and you've a vested interest in making them proficient )

Naomi



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hi Deano,


Deano is the guy that held our club's workshop for us and I can highly recommend him.
He is a great teacher!

If I have my own scythe by then Deano I shall be joining you

deanom



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 7:59 pm    Post subject: Workshop Reply with quote
    

Hi Bugs

My plan is to put up a small marquee, so that people can camp overnight (BBQ!!!!). This should help if anybody wants to come from further afield.

I agree that I would have a vested interest in making sure that my new "helpers" were proficient, but knowing my luck, it would probably rain on the Sunday morning, so that it hay makinh was more difficult.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hi deanom, as Bugs says we'd love to be tought how to use a scythe and I can just picture several people in tents sleeping with their scythes.

I do like the idea of using a scythe rather than power tools, how long does it take you to cut an acre of hay?

deanom



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 06 7:20 pm    Post subject: Mowing Reply with quote
    

The time varies: Time of year, time of day, density of the sward etc.

To give you some idea, decent grass cut Mid May, would take me 8 -10 hours. The same grass just cut was about 16 hrs. That was partly because I couldn't start mowing until after 10 O'clock, by which time the best part of the day was gone. The grass had also been blow/rained flat, making it harder to cut

Two people starting at dawn should manage an acre in 4-6 hours, as both of you are cutting early. (two lots of 3-4 hours early).

As the Austrian Scythes are light enough to be used by women and children, it makes sense to have one each, providing OH is a willing helper.

The actual making of hay takes quite a bit of time. About 2 hrs, 2-3 times day. Once again, the help of family/friends/community makes it easier, and more enjoyable.

Hope that answers your question

gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 06 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

First progress report from scythe novice :

1. Saturday : set up scythe per instructions, which was easy.
Tip : if you get a wooden snath, apply the 50:50 mix of raw linseed oil and turps (substitute) to snath and handles before you start putting the bits together. Also oil the threads of the bolts before fitting the handles. This saves taking it all to bits and starting again after you've read the destructions.
Took the scythe up to the allotment and attempted to clear thistles and docks from the next door abandoned plot. Not a good place to start : too worried about damaging the blade on unknown rocks / rubble. Made a mess, and couldn't get the rhythm / swing. SO had a go too, ended up using it as a blade to hack with, but not to great effect.

2. Tuesday evening : back home. Had a brief go at the hay meadow (lawn). Much better experience. Heavens ! It does what it says on the tin, so to speak (i.e. cuts grass). As fast as a strimmer, more neatly. Result not even, but at least the grass is no longer 3' high. Beaten back indoors by evening midges.

3. Thursday afternoon : started on the access track from the road-end. Took the whetstones with me, one in each pocket. They weigh very little. Some kind of holster for them would be useful. Cutting a mix of red and white clover, chervil, grasses gone to seed, etc., quite thick. Again, less messy and sappy than with a strimmer, and did not seem to annoy the insects as much. Easy to tell when the blade needs whetted, and very quick and gentle to re-sharpen. However, my shoulders and elbows were getting a bit sore after a while, and I was developing a blister on one hand : I think there are muscles that have to be built up gradually to scythe really well. I'm thinking about adjusting the handle positions in the light of use. Still not got the hang of it, as I can't yet get a full swathe cut without hanking on the grass part-way through, but I can see and feel what it ought to be like, and there were a few times I managed to achieve some kind of flow for a few strokes. One thing seems to be to swing the scythe with muscles [arms and sides] under [some] control all the way round, not launching in and hoping the momentum will carry me through.

I don't reckon that's bad going for first experiments with only a book for guidance and some kind of mental image of what scything should be like. I expect it to get a lot better. Just read the bit in the book where it says that a scythe doesn't start to cut properly until it's been peened a few times, and I haven't done that at all yet.

Initial impressions are that it is a great implement, well worth having and using, better than a strimmer/brushcutter in many respects (not even mentioned the lack of noise and vibration, no numb fingers, and no worries about running out of petrol).

deanom



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 06 8:39 pm    Post subject: Some help Reply with quote
    

Hi Gil

thanks for the PM, and have replied.

To carry your stone, get a two pint, plastic milk bottle, cut off the top, but leaving the handle intact. Thread your belt through the handle, 3/4 fill with water, add a drop of vinegar, et voila!

To avoid arm and shoulder fatigue, whet more frequently, and try and use your waist more. Difficult to explain, but use the waist as the engine, and your arms to steer.

Peening is quite simple. I'm guessing that you're using a jig?
You're right to say that it needs three to five goes before the blade gets really good. It's better to peen, then use the blade for a bit, before peening again, especially with a jig. You really will notice a difference.

The book gives good advice on setting up the handles on the snath, but play around with it until it works for you. I found that as my technique improved (grass), it felt more comfortable with a bigger length from the lower hand to the blade, and a wider grip between both hands.

Great to see another mower, and please ask if something is not quite going as you would hope.

Regards
Deano

gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 06 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've not yet got anything to peen with, but was hoping to teach myself to peen without a jig, just a peening hammer and portable (pocket) anvil, outdoors. The book makes it seem fairly straightforward. (!?)

As for 2-pt plastic milk bottles with handles: don't think we have these up here, but I think I know what you mean and will keep a lookout for someting of the kind. I've been using the whetstones dry and blowing/brushing them clean after use. Whetting was so quick and easy it would be fine to do more frequently, and it really made a difference.

"try and use your waist more. Difficult to explain, but use the waist as the engine, and your arms to steer. "
Yes, that's what I was meaning when I said
"to swing the scythe with muscles [arms and sides] under [some] control all the way round"
The side muscles seemed to be most important. A bit like working the side abdominals in the gym with a barbell pole across the shoulders : to get an effect, you twist slowly and work the muscles under control. I think the sore left elbow and l.hand blister was from trying too hard to pull the scythe across instead of letting the sides do the twisting work.

It seems as though a well-designed implement has a physical logic of its own which helps lead you towards correct use (if you listen to it). It's interesting trying to communicate with words over the net about an activity / movement that is so physical, and I guess once learnt becomes a form of tacit knowledge (like how to ride a pushbike or knead bread dough) that can be hard to explain in words. You have to do it and feel it to know.

Bugs and TD : I'm really enjoying starting to scythe, and looking forward to using it well.

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