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Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 15 2:55 am Post subject:

cassandra wrote:

The failure of a well wall (and it does happen more frequently than industry admits to while the well is live...)

I'd like to see the data behind that assertion.

cassandra wrote:

(...and inevitable when the well is no longer in use)

Sorry, but that's codswallop. There are thousands upon thousands of abandoned wells out there. If it was inevitable that they all leaked, I think there'd have been quite a scandal by now.

PS. Sorry for the slow response - been on holiday

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 15 1:54 pm Post subject:

iirc the new york state documents have numbers for wall failures

iirc it was a single figure percentage but as some of these sites require many production pads with multiple holes a low failure rate is significant over a landscape

iirc there are quite a lot of disused holes ,some of which are fractured.
the main problem with that is the "owners" are often no longer trading as a lot of "firewall"nested companies are used in order to reduce long term liabilities while the cash goes strait to contractors and owners while the operation is ongoing.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 15 7:17 pm Post subject:
Fracking: Energy Secretary's advisor received £5,000 election donation from company set to benefit from controversial technique

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 15 7:24 pm Post subject:
cheapskates ,5 k for a chance at 25mil,i would have asked for a lot more. iirc ten percent is usual but maybe there will be a directorship in it later.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15472
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 15 8:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Government plans to roll out fracking across Britain face delays of up to two years following a surprise decision to reject exploration for shale gas in Lancashire.

Ministers are concerned by the implications of the decision by Lancashire County Council last month to reject planning applications from the shale gas company Cuadrilla to drill eight wells at two sites on the Fylde coastal plain.

The Government had been expecting councilors to give their go-ahead to exploratory drilling on sites. But instead they turned down Cuadrilla’s application on the grounds that it would have an unacceptable visual impact and create too much noise.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fracking-could-be-delayed-for-up-to-two-years-across-uk-after-lancashire-council-rejects-test-drilling-10428602.html

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 15 9:13 pm Post subject:
national are easy to buy,local have to live there might be simplistic but it seems to be the case in NYstate. does anyone know how the ucg plans are progressing re the granted licenses and the need to get local pp for any onshore facilities?

cassandra

Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1733
Location: Tasmania Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 15 8:25 am Post subject:

Shane, apologies for the delayed response. Not actively following this thread. But well casings are made from layers of cement and steel, they fail because the materials degrade over time. They are not immortal. Time may not be the short period for which fracking has been in use (it was, after all, only invented in 1948 or thereabouts), but the world is going to be around for a little longer than that (one hopes).

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Shale-Gas-Casing-and-Cementation-Will-Fail-but-When.html

Here are a few more examples of the sorts of difficulties that can arise from this process:

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4290767.htm

This one is a bit of nice pedantics, to avoid addressing the problem...

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2014/09/15/study-finds-flawed-well-casings-not-fracking-caused-tainted-water/
If it is the well casing failing, not the fracking that causes the problem, then, sorry, it is the fracking that causes the problem - why? Because if they weren't fracking, they would not be installing the well casings.

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/30/10955.full

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 15 11:41 pm Post subject:

the first one planned as a test in yorkshire has just been passed by national gov by the simple tactic of avoiding the local bodies that could object being allowed to.

im of the opinion that fracking isnt necessarily the problem ,i recon it is the folk who wish to do it economically firewalling the operations and profit then running and leaving the legacy issues that is the problem.

ucg is a very bad idea though and is the obvious direction of mission creep round here .

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16507

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 15 6:21 am Post subject:

I would agree with your assessment Cassandra. In this area we have had to have several 1960s structures taken down because the reinforced concrete was becoming dangerous. Underground the conditions are rather different, but that in itself can pose other challenges to the structure. The layers can be acid or alkaline and from reading the first of those articles, different pressures can be experienced by different parts of the structure.

I am afraid the government pushing through the first experimental well doesn't fill me with confidence. Rather than being sure they wouldn't do it if it wasn't safe it rather makes me thinks that someone is in it for the money, the company may well be allowed to get away with anything, and the people of the area will be left to pick up the pieces which may include high costs for remedial action later (perhaps in 100 years time) and possibly contaminated ground or water.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 15 8:40 am Post subject:
in east yorks rathlin have decided one site is "uneconomic" but are wanting to go ahead with another to see how it turns out.they will be given permissions to do that. the outcomes of that might be ok or bad but anything less than dreadful will open the way for many other areas to start tests/production. tests are small scale (only a few pads etc)but full scale will be many pads

cassandra

Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1733
Location: Tasmania Australia

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 15 9:37 am Post subject:

The legacy issues with all mining operations are a direct result of a) the government failing to hold mining companies responsible for providing adequate insurance deposits, and b) the failure to take into consideration the fact that people will still (hopefully) be around in a thousand years to deal with the consequences, no matter how deferred they are.

The companies are certainly less than responsible in their dealings with land owners and any who find themselves impacted by the side-effects of the operation. Funny how often they go broke shortly after extracting billions of dollars worth of resource. I have been involved in a number of meetings with companies winding down their operations, and who have failed to deliver on their commitments, and the government, despite their officers' recommendations, decide it is all too hard and 'we don't want to discourage mining because it provides jobs'. Well, the mining industry is the only industry that uses a multiplier of ten to argue how many jobs they create (i.e. they claim ten 'associated employment opportunities' for every one person actually employed, and they forget to mention that that one person will be on a fly-in-fly-out contract as no-one locally has the expertise to do the job.

There is a serious need for all governments to hold these companies more accountable before they start giving them permission to create more environmental harm.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 15 10:50 am Post subject:
these companies hold governments to account rather than the other way round. see your "billions" word ,that is how.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4632
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 15 4:08 pm Post subject:
I wonder if the recent closure of Hatfield and the due closure of Kellingley has accelerated the spread of fracking in Yorkshire, https://email.thebusinessdesk.com/In/89910884/0/w63pI7%7e2dS6AfwoxQCbv1gRmSBtI1TcQ9yslCZuFxM%7e/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 15 4:16 pm Post subject:
pro frackers it will be interesting to see what directorships etc this lot get in the future and what interests they and their friends and relations hold

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16507

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 15 6:00 am Post subject:
Mine voted to end the moratorium, but that doesn't surprise me because when the leaders say jump he jumps. Think he has ambitions to be in the cabinet. Don't suppose he would say no to a nice directorship after his time in parliament either, but don't think he is working for that one, just the cabinet.

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