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OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 12:45 pm Post subject: Well worth a read and a listen
This Changes Everything - Naomi Klein. Well written and articulate argument for governments doing a lot more to combat climate change. She was interviewed on Woman's Hour today too.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 1:44 pm Post subject:
Does it,i`m not convinced at all, Where`s the proof? The climate has changed several times since the World began,what`s new, Since i`ve been on the land the weather has been changeable so have the seasons,what`s new.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 3:03 pm Post subject:
Watch this programme, it's very interesting and useful to see why so many people have drawn the same conclusions over climate change. Climate Change by Numbers

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 9:57 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Does it,i`m not convinced at all,
Where`s the proof?

The climate has changed several times since the World began,what`s new,
Since i`ve been on the land the weather has been changeable so have the seasons,what`s new.

Of course there are natural climate cycles (due to the variable nature of the earth's orbit over the centuries, etc) but what the scientists are talking about is the change due to us burning millions of tons of fossil fuels and changing the CO2 levels in the atmosphere on top of the natural cycles. This has been measured and is proven beyond doubt.

We'd be crazy to continue pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere.
It doesn't matter if you don't believe it - its happening.

Prove to me it isn't.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 10:17 pm Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Prove to me it isn't.

While I agree with you the onus on proof is on those make a claim rather than those denying it. Prove to me there isn't a chocolate tea pot in orbit around the moon.

Back to Ty Gwyn.

The evidence is very clear and the more data we gather the greater becomes the case for demonstrating that man has a profound effect on climate change. What is damaging is not that climate is changing but the rate of change is so fast the evolution cannot keep pace fast enough for the animal kingdom to adapt and survive and species extinction increases at an ever great pace.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 10:58 pm Post subject:

The trouble is,there are a lot of scientists who do not agree with each other,
What about the climate change scientists ship that got stuck in the ice not long back,similar to Mr Scott,
Why is the biggest member of the EU pumping out so much carbon?
Surely its not because they have vast numbers of Wind Turbines so they can balance their carbon books.
Now Japan ,the site of the Kyoto agreement is changing back to coal,no mention of sustainable energy,

And their both advanced countries.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:04 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Have you watched the Climate Change by Numbers programme?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:11 pm Post subject:
I watched half of it the other night when you placed the link,must finish watching one night.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:13 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The overwhelming majority of scientists agree that humans are accelerating climate change. They are not all in agreement about the rate or the exact consequences. Just because governments still condone buurning of fossil fuels doesn't alter the facts. If we don't change and soon we are all heading for a very rocky future.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:18 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

Prove to me it isn't.

While I agree with you the onus on proof is on those make a claim rather than those denying it. Prove to me there isn't a chocolate tea pot in orbit around the moon.

Thats like wanting me to prove the earth is round when its already common knowledge. Its the 21st century and there is no need to prove climate change.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:22 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The trouble is,there are a lot of scientists who do not agree with each other,

Really?

Ty Gwyn wrote:

What about the climate change scientists ship that got stuck in the ice not long back,similar to Mr Scott,

What about it? Are you suggesting that because there of climate change we shouldn't have ice? Climate change is about trends not fluctuations.

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Why is the biggest member of the EU pumping out so much carbon?
Surely its not because they have vast numbers of Wind Turbines so they can balance their carbon books.

Because they're the power house of Europe perhaps?

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Now Japan ,the site of the Kyoto agreement is changing back to coal,no mention of sustainable energy,

"A lack of locations with constant wind, environmental restrictions, and emphasis by power utilities on fossil and nuclear power hinders the employment of more wind power in the country".

No mention of sustainable energy? Where do you get your information from? A very quick search show Japan is investing in renewables but is hindered by industry. Don't forget Japan has relatively weak governance.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:26 pm Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

vegplot wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

Prove to me it isn't.

While I agree with you the onus on proof is on those make a claim rather than those denying it. Prove to me there isn't a chocolate tea pot in orbit around the moon.

Thats like wanting me to prove the earth is round when its already common knowledge. Its the 21st century and there is no need to prove climate change.

You miss the point. The assertion is plainly ridiculous and it's futile to try and prove it wrong. The claimant has to prove their case beyond reasonable double. You asked Ty Gwyn to prove something isn't so. Is that not just as futile?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:28 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I watched half of it the other night when you placed the link,must finish watching one night.

It answers most questions about it. The change is definitely happening, and there's certainly no harm in reducing our extraction of carbon while we work out how to perfect carbon capture. Come the day we do perfect it, the coal, oil & gas will still be there.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:29 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

97% of scientists do agree with each other. Scientists are not the politicians who make the decisions.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Graham Hyde

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 15 11:44 pm Post subject:
The current climate is not the normal for planet earth. We are actually still emerging from an ice age. Fact.

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