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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28212
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 23 3:12 pm Post subject:
https://youtu.be/MLEz82d-Cuo This is pretty interesting. It says a lot about how so called respectable media has no qualms about outright lies and how things are driven by agendas.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46088
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 23 11:36 pm Post subject:
plenty of such peeps are put forward as propagandists, try climate, brexit, domestic and geopolitics, energy supply etc

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46088
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 23 12:12 am Post subject:
there was an example of bbc "balance" that led to the same fash activist being local to several question time audiences and getting a question each time some of the regular panel guests had a known reputation for a creative relationship with reality "balance" can be one person saying truth and many lying and far more distracting dont look up or sideways, look at THIS

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 3:37 pm Post subject:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/the-big-reuse-25-mwh-of-ex-car-batteries-go-on-the-grid-in-california/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46088
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 3:45 pm Post subject:
wont start the car, will act as a store for the electric fence PV their bigger scale upcycling makes lots of sense

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28212
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 7:49 am Post subject:

One of the recurring battery themes in that last week has been assorted proposals to make lithium batteries last very long years.
As ever never too sure what will hit fruition.
A very real advance that simply will happen is wireless thermal management removing about 100kg of copper from packs.
Other advances make me wonder if thermal management will be be needed?
If a battery is made to be recycled/reused and is cheap. Perhaps a lighter car and an acceptance of a cheap battery replacement being needed at 100,000 miles is a good trade off?
it's all quite exciting, albeit I think the UK is going to be starved on the interesting cars this year.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15862

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 8:29 am Post subject:

Seems an excellent idea. Batteries do need as many of the components as possible recycled, and this secondary use, while complicated from the software point of view, makes sense.

This reminds me of the early days of desktop computers when you had to buy matching printer, computer, screen and keypad from the same supplier or it wouldn't work. Jema, your remark also reminds me of US adverts and articles claiming something was up and running and you could buy it when in fact it was still very much in development. I think that is the state of the very long lasting lithium batteries, but they, or an alternative long life battery will come some time.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 11:20 am Post subject:
VW reckon their next generation of EVs will be 20% more efficient. We really are at the very start of this.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46088
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 11:33 am Post subject:

20% seems a bit tame as an ambition, the Chinese firms seem closer to pooter improvement rates

the legacy companies are electrifying because they have to, the start-ups because they can
different mind set

ps vw has a somewhat dubious record for truthfulness, the early "unicorncar"stamps thing was a good un, and more recently hacking their own engine management pooters to be "clean" when tested was genius in a bad way

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 12:18 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

ps vw has a somewhat dubious record for truthfulness

Yep

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15862

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 7:46 am Post subject:
There have been a few breakthroughs in battery technology since I first remember, and I am sure there will be more. This is probably the last link in the chain to improve renewable electricity production and storage; there is always one link that lags behind.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28212
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 8:46 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

dpack wrote:

ps vw has a somewhat dubious record for truthfulness

Yep

The auto industry is a habitual liar. For example for several years Toyota announced it would be releasing cars with solid state batteries something like next year. This was before 2020 and of course nothing every materialised.
No one calls them to account for what wasn't just over optimism but FUD.
No one calls to account the myth of hydrogen cars as this myth still helps slow EV adoption.
There's nothing that is being said about EVs that isn't tainted by self interest.
The outliers in that regard are BYD, Musk and the others that have the least need for hyperbole.
A reaction to that might be to laugh at me saying Musk isn't about hyperbole? but all things are relative.
I'd call hyperbole Toyota showing off 18 proposed EV models last year that were little more than cardboard cut outs!

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 23 7:14 pm Post subject:

I'm coming to the view that EV's are going to be like betamax videos - not the solution that ends up being adopted long term. Hydrogen resolves the main issues most people have with EVs - range anxiety and not wanting to hang around for an hour+ to get a full charge on a long journey.

Hyundai put a big chunk of last years research budget into hydrogen vehicles and other manufacturers are doing similar.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 23 8:03 pm Post subject:
Hydrogens got lots of issues but plenty of potential. Whatever happens electric vehicles (fuel cell or battery) are going to be the future

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46088
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 23 10:10 pm Post subject:

betacam was useful, betamax domestic use was messy, and H2 fuelled vehicles have been tried for a very long time, a bit carp and potentially very moody
do you want "george down the garage" to mend the kit that holds a very sneaky molecule in a safe place

having worked with hydrogen, i wouldn't, i would not want anything that did not have decent walls and a very soft roof as a box and me not in the box

the stuff leaks at connections and creeps through solid metal, it makes some metals brittle which can be a little disturbing when it fails, it finds some metals to be ace catalysts for reactions, and in quite a variety of mixtures with air it is excitingly energetic if surprised with a bit of activation energy or if the O2 and H2 are introduced by a matchmaking catalyst

PS 10% or whatever in "natural gas" at LP is a very different beast to H2 at HP or in a concentrated chemically sequestered form as a vehicle fuel

ultimate reducing agent in many ways

fun physics and chemistry but nightmare engineering and the public can barely cope with candles

industrially, H2 is manageable and has quite a lot of potential (steel etc)

vehicles, imho there are too many practical and safety issues

if you can drive after you connected the car to a hose, a LP H2 fuel would be more than sensible than trying an HP cylinder as the fuel tank in your metal box

decent batteries, motors and power supply may well be the practical digicam of transport

fuel cells can have uses, cars is probably not one of them
as one part of an energy system using hydrogen as storage, the entropic losses are far too high from gen to H" to regen as leccy

but as a fossil free feedstock H2 has potential

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