rod for my own back, looking for advice.

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rod for my own back, looking for advice.
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Nell Merionwen

Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 10 11:13 pm Post subject: rod for my own back, looking for advice.

Georgie is an adorable young dog. She doesn't have a mean bone in her body and is very loving. She is also a blooming nightmare. She is overly bouncy, has few boundries and is spoilt. I know she isn't very well trained and I know she is spoilt. It is entirely my fault. I now know I need to correct this. Any advice would be greatfully received. I need to find a way with the least amount of upset to her. It's not her fault and I don't want her to suffer for my mistake.

help.....

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12591
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 10 11:15 pm Post subject:
Join an obedience class. They train you so you can train the dog.

darkbrowneggs

Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 663
Location: Worcestershire

Posted: Tue Nov 02, 10 11:21 pm Post subject:
There used to be a program on the TV with a Mexican chap who was an absolutely brilliant dog trainer. He's got a website which it might be worth checking out. All the best Sue

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 10 12:41 am Post subject:

Dogs naturally live is a strict social hierarchy and youngsters expect have to behave themselves around older dogs outside of play learning. I've recently spent time with a perfectly well-behaved, controlled pack of eight Irish setters, and its all done by the woman who's in charge of them being strong and the boss.

Georgie doesn't need you to be her friend, but her leader. Her mother or however was in charge of her natural pack wouldn't let the thought of not upsetting her cross their mind, they'd just give her a glare and maybe a nip if she overstepped the mark.

Puppies like to know what the rules are, and that they are solid, it gives them security. They love you all the more when you provide that certainty.

Brownbear

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 10 5:04 am Post subject:
That is a very difficult breed for obedience. They are also fiendishly effective scroungers.

Dogwalker

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: Mid Wales

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 10 7:56 am Post subject:
What Bebo said and before she gets any older. Try to find a class that the children can go to as well so your all doing the same and they'll find it fun when they can teach her themselves.

Cobnut

Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 475
Location: North Herefordshire

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 10 8:36 am Post subject:

Nell, do you recognise the things you should be doing/should have done? If so, just do them, every time, starting now. As Yummersetter has said, Georgie will expect boundaries and discipline, so provided you are firm, fair and consistent and still give her loads of loving then she won’t hold it against you.

A good exercise is to ask the dog to sit before putting the lead on to go out for a walk. If she gets up before you’ve given her permission with a “release” (exercise over do what you like/at ease) command (I use “OK”), or another command like “heel” then remove the lead. Ask her “sit” again, if she sits then put the lead on. If she moves remove the lead and if necessary put it away, leave her alone for a few minutes before trying again. They same applies to once she’s on the lead and you want to let her off for a run. The lead only comes off when she’s “earned” it by sitting still until you’ve given her permission to move and do her own thing. They soon learn that if they want the reward ie the walk, they have to listen to what you want, and do as they’re told. But different people have different ideas of how to train dogs and even “experts” often don’t agree with each other.

If you’re not sure about techniques then going to training classes can be useful, even as a refresher for people who have done it before. The Association of Pet Dog Trainers has a website with lists of approved trainers nationwide, and their methods are fair. Depends what your style and experience level is I suppose. Hope this didn’t sound like I’m trying to teach you to suck eggs only I have no idea what experience you have.

evie2

Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 2156
Location: Here

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 10 4:33 pm Post subject:
If only you had said something before, Eilidh's a qualified dog handler (she specialises in behaviour) I could have sent her with her tent last week Seriously, classes are fun and it's never too late, Bonny was 9 when I took her

SheepShed

Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 332
Location: In the middle of a Welsh forest

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 10 5:17 pm Post subject:

yummersetter wrote:

Absolutely agree (and as I'm typing this a 14 week old labradoodle is trying to eat my office).

Letting a dog get away with things forces them into the role of pack leader whether they like it or not, which can make them anxious and nervous, which in turn can lead to aggression and other pathological behaviour. You're giving them responsibility they don't want and can't handle

The kindest thing you can do is put them firmly in their place, so they know where they stand and can get on with normal dog behaviour.

We instinctively feel that if we display love then they will benefit, but what they need are displays of authority.

Lots of little things you can do to demonstrate their relative standing in the pack :

If you did this to a human it would be incredibly rude and unfriendly, to a dog it's entirely natural. They know the boundaries and can relax within them.

Jenna

Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 263
Location: Away with the fairies

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 10 12:52 pm Post subject:

Sits on hands, sits on hands......

Anyway. Agree with training class. Good for socialising too. Be ready when you change the rules that she will try harder at first to get you to do whatever it was you used to do before you changed the rules

Don't give in to her at this point or you'll REALLY be making a rod for your own back! Google 'extinction burst'.

Boundaries and rules are a good thing. Consistancy (did i spell that right? I don't mean 'thickness'

) is key. Personally I'd keep well away from the TV guy. Don't ask me why or I'll start ranting my head off!!!

Just come back from work where I've had to syringe feed and medicate a very small, very old lady who has been traumatised by the attempts of (someone I work with) to show her who's boss in an effort to get pills down her neck. He likes the TV guy too. Note; I am biased because i deal with dogs belonging to other people, where you simply can't get away with treatment that your own dog would accept from you. Sorry. End of rant.

Last edited by Jenna on Sat Nov 06, 10 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

alice

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 2820

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 10 1:14 pm Post subject:

SheepShed wrote:

- Ignore them for 5 minutes when you get home before giving them attention

Blimey! Does anyone actually do this?

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 10 2:29 pm Post subject:

Personally, I don't think the ignoring thing is necessary but agree with most of the other stuff.

Firstly, tire her out - dogs with too much energy are always a handful (Is Abbie old enough to walk her. Play will help too)

Establish the rules (it doesn't much matter what they are, as long as they consistent) Not letting dogs on furniture is a good start, because they perceive your space.

YOU ARE THE BOSS DOG. But Georgie doesn't speak English, and you have to tell her in Dog. This means eating before her, going through doors first, not letting her jump up or decide who comes into the house, and her doing what you say. Rough play is brilliant for this - lots of rolling around on the floor. Never chase her - she will always win. Hide from her, and where it is safe to do so, run away from her, so she has to chase you. A good sit, down, stay and heel is all you need in terms of 'traditional' commands

You have an advantage in that she's a foodie breed, and so will do anything for sausage (crumbs if you are giving her lots). Reward her well for good behaviour, and if you are consistent (I can't emphasise this enough)

Classes are brilliant, because you have support and can get the kids involoved and have deidcated time with your dog (it's easy to put it off otherwise)

You have raised nice children, so you can train a dog. Reward good behaviour, ignore bad, wear them out and be consistent. It's easy, if exhausting and takes real staying power, but it's not rocket surgery.

Nell Merionwen

Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 10 4:37 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

thanks all, some Fab advice here and you can be assured that I will be using it.
The first step is to stop her sleeping in my bed. She does sit, come, laydown, in your bed (much amusement to be had from this one), she can even sit and "leave" a treat at her nose until she is told "it's Georgie's" the biggest problem is her being in my space constantly and not being able to leave a room without her. It feels a lot like toddler's separation anxiety. I also think she is putting the children below her in the chain of command and thinks that if they are eating she should be too. I do not feed her at the table or give her treats while we are eating. Any titbits have to be put in her bowl after we have all finished.
I was advised that she can be trained to recognise "Georgie time" ie only sitting on my lap and moithering when told it is her "time" what do you all think?

Nell Merionwen

Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 10 4:43 pm Post subject:

darkbrowneggs wrote:

There used to be a program on the TV with a Mexican chap who was an absolutely brilliant dog trainer. He's got a website which it might be worth checking out.

All the best
Sue

I have his book

It would serve me better if I actually bent the spine rather than useing it to prop other books up on the book case

Dogwalker

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: Mid Wales

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 10 6:08 pm Post subject:

It sounds like you've made a really good start with training and just need to sort out the whose boss bit.
Will she do all those things for the children or just you?
Get them to practise the things she knows already so their taking charge.
For the seperation start off slowly and build up the time she's left.Go back to her when she's quiet not fussing or your rewarding the fuss.
What's she like when your out shopping and stuff?

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