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buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3322
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 18 11:37 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

You're so right, MR. I have always known Green Winged Orchid as Orchis morio, but now they tell me I'm supposed to call it Anacamptis morio.

And some of the nomenclaturists get so uptight that if they discovered that the first time somebody published the name Anacamptis it was misprinted Anacmaptis, they'd insist we changed to that!

Henry

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33718
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 18 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

the tidy up of shroom names is needed but a bit tricky to adjust to.

iirc with plants quite a few have been wrongly recorded as separate spp, the same spp, multiple times as different species.

spose that will take a while and be a bit challenging to adjust to as well.

i like local names but it only works if you only need local references to them while grannie or your apprentice master teaches id, properties etc etc .
same name different plant or visa versa is rather awkward for the transmission of food or pharmacy knowledge as "distance" learning or if you have relocated asking where something grows.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 18 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nothofagus = southern beech is another one that is a bit confusing. Apparently it should have been Notofagus but someone put a h in it.

buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3322
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 18 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
Nothofagus = southern beech is another one that is a bit confusing. Apparently it should have been Notofagus but someone put a h in it.


I wonder if that's true. Notho seems to come from nothus = false.

Noto seems to mean back as in Notonecta - Water Boatman or Backswimmer.

I can see the connection between 'false' and Nothofagus - a tree that looks like Beech but isn't. Can't see any back connection.

Henry

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 18 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

No. I must admit my Latin is non-existent, so perhaps what I read was incorrect. On the other hand 'back' could apply more to the fact they are found in the Southern Hemisphere as those in charge of names were all European. I must say that 'notho' does sound a bit odd as it is rather more like North.

lowri



Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1231
Location: ceredigion
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 18 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Garden plant names keep changing, even quite ordinary ones. My mother was furious when they changed Montbretia to Crocosmia.
Thank you, Buzzy, for the alternative names for Herb Bennett - much nicer ones (Bennett always reminded me of a great-aunt I didn't like). I hadn't read Pride & Prejudice at that age!

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33718
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 18 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

good in salad is a fairly decent generic name.

the id needs to be very precise if you want the tribe to see morning, names are a good way to remember the id/use

latin names seem to work but the catalogue needs some tidying

the latin name is often good for a basic description but the local names are based on use (or look ) which is often easier to remember.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 18 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That's true Dpack, but it would be a brave (or foolhardy) person these days that tried toothwort for toothache, or lungwort for a cough. They were named because of the 'doctrine of signatures' rather than any help they might give I suspect.

buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3322
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 18 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

lowri wrote:
Garden plant names keep changing, even quite ordinary ones. My mother was furious when they changed Montbretia to Crocosmia.
Thank you, Buzzy, for the alternative names for Herb Bennett - much nicer ones (Bennett always reminded me of a great-aunt I didn't like). I hadn't read Pride & Prejudice at that age!


It might help that Bennett derives from the Frenchified word Benoit, from the Latin Benedictus = Blessed - old French name for the plant Herbe Benoit = Blessed Herb.

There are ways of saying "Blessed Great Aunt" that alter the meaning.

Henry

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 18 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

and also interesting derivation.

buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3322
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 18 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Today we went to a woodland reserve hoping to see Birdsnest Orchid ( a fail) and Early Purple Orchid (just about a success. We found a couple, expecting many more).

We also saw Guelder Rose (Viburnum opulus) - not rare but a lovely plant (in my view)




Crawling over logs in a recently cut area was a Wasp Beetle (Clytus arietis), a longhorn beetle described in my book as "a superb wasp mimic"




The beetle may be superb, but I think calling the mimicry superb is overstating the case.

Henry

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41849
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 18 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Frankly I've seen small children in fancy dress who looked more like the object of their mimicry than that beetle does.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 18 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I would have thought it was too early for birds nest orchid. I usually expect to see them after the bluebell foliage has died back. That is what makes them so hard to spot; brown flower on brown background. It may be that we haven't cut the right areas this year, but it doesn't seem quite such a good orchid year this year as some. We have a lot up a track called 'Orchid Hill', and they are particularly good this year, but other areas are rather disappointing.

buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3322
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 18 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We have had BNO in mid May, but usually in brown leaves. The area we searched on Monday had lots of greenery growing up, making the search much more difficult. We put it down to the oddness of the season.

Henry

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9622

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 18 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I usually find them after the bluebells and wild garlic have died back, usually some time in June at the earliest, but that could be because they are hidden before that, as you say.

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