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climate rebellion etc
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 19 9:17 pm    Post subject: climate rebellion etc  Reply with quote    

my comrade got a small fine and a mention in the mail

a gentle token gesture can be good propaganda by deed and it seems that the enemy was persuaded to provide the means to broadcast it

style mate
a few years of working on common causes was good
the last time we worked together on a specific project was fun and might have been quite effective as it did quite a bit towards achieving our objective.
overall the price was high in lost friends

hi gchq . you know this stuff but most of you won't have clearance. ha ha .

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 10986

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I am not sure about Climate Rebellion. Some of them are probably quite sincere, but I rather suspect that some of them are just trouble makers finding another banner to make trouble under. I think the students climate strikes are probably rather better.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15287
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There was a row on the local XR facebook group when somebody suggested that people could use string to attach placards rather than loads of plastic tape.
One person sincerely(?!) did not understand what was wrong with using tape that they had in the cupboard... like single use plastic doesn't count if you've bought it already?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

direct action is a valid and useful tactic, it can be part of a consciousness raising project, it can be a focus for assorted groups and individuals to join together for a common purpose and perhaps the two most important aspects are the direct prevention or forcing of an action and even when "winning" is not possible "losing" and/or monkey wrenching can be made so expensive for the enemy they never want to do it again(or they declare bankruptcy having lost millions of their own and other folks money, ha ha ha ) .

direct action alone is sometimes useful(especially if the action being opposed is stopped before it happens rather than arguing about it once it is done) but in combination with other diplomatic, legal and gaining public support means it can become the leverage required to empower the other aspects of a campaign and achieve the overall objective.

for instance what is the point of letting somebody quarry an ancient monument when you can stop them, cost them so much they do not wish to do it any more and it is considered a non crime that a £3/4 million digger was found on fire with it's bucket in the floor 47 m inside a scheduled monument having already destroyed 2 bronze age burial cairns and heading towards several others.
it does not stop all quarry work but to directly oppose a blatantly illegal act with another is a valid defence.
ps the insurance refused to pay out as well due to the illegality of being in the place it was when it caught fire, the police checked with the cps re SAM's and established no secondary crime had occurred as it was a justifiable a prevention of the primary one.
it was one small part of a much broader operation which included direct action to hold areas as well as long term legal and political actions as well.

re climate rebellion imho they add to the pressure and awareness in ways that complement the very valid work of the young folk.
plus it would not be fair to expect kids to lock on to a petrol tanker if there are old hands available for such tasks.

"non-violent" i.e. not aimed at persons action is dangeroos in ways that full on is not but it can be very effective and it is politically more resistant to criticism than more robust means.
refusing to use violence against the person/s and opposing by non-violent direct action in a just cause does work in a democracy, in less than democratic situations i would take a very different view.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
There was a row on the local XR facebook group when somebody suggested that people could use string to attach placards rather than loads of plastic tape.
One person sincerely(?!) did not understand what was wrong with using tape that they had in the cupboard... like single use plastic doesn't count if you've bought it already?


duh try being "green" up a mountain in winter actually we did quite well at it although we were not skilled enough to go pre iron age with a bit of low voltage 21stC kit

we could have used modern kit for big momma but worming through gritstone with a hammer and chisel is rather satisfying and as we were in occupation time was not a major factor.

being in occupation also provided opportunity to liase with potential allies and negotiate with foes

we won that one outright and added to that win by changing government policy regarding such issues elsewhere.

such things were a big chunk of my life for a decade or so, we don't do medals or ranks we just get the job done if we possibly can regardless of danger to our life limb or liberty.
to put that last bit in perspective over the time we occupied stantonia we had a casualty rate about 3 times that of UK forces in afganistan and iraq in terms of dead and wounded.
i lost 2 close fiends and 2 comrades and a stranger who took 9 days to find, the assorted nonfatal messinesses were numerous and mostly among comrades or visitors, unfriendly visitors got hurt as well but so what if they could not cope with the landscape.
if you are doing it full on it is wise to expect casualties, i had a full cave n cliff rescue kit including PHTLS kit.

no apologies for the rant but tell it like it is seems wise as then folk might start to understand what is involved and the level of commitment required.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
There was a row on the local XR facebook group when somebody suggested that people could use string to attach placards rather than loads of plastic tape.
One person sincerely(?!) did not understand what was wrong with using tape that they had in the cupboard... like single use plastic doesn't count if you've bought it already?


ps polyprop rope is a fossil product but it is ace for walkways, skylons and washing lines .
try digging a tunnel without metal tools.
shall we walk to that action in west wales tomorrow?
etc etc .

tell em the tape is a non issue from me.
boots on the ground are more important than bare feet at home

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15287
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
There was a row on the local XR facebook group when somebody suggested that people could use string to attach placards rather than loads of plastic tape.
One person sincerely(?!) did not understand what was wrong with using tape that they had in the cupboard... like single use plastic doesn't count if you've bought it already?


ps polyprop rope is a fossil product but it is ace for walkways, skylons and washing lines .
try digging a tunnel without metal tools.
shall we walk to that action in west wales tomorrow?
etc etc .

tell em the tape is a non issue from me.
boots on the ground are more important than bare feet at home


Not clear what point you are driving at there.
It is not that tape is an issue, only that string is an easy alternative, which is better on a number of counts.

derbyshiredowser



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 841
Location: derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

At this point in time My mate is my proxy demonstrator and is glued to the floor. However in a strange quirk of fate my eldest is running the parks half marathon on Sunday and the demonstrators will be on the route so he was wondering if he has to jump over glued protesters would it qualify as hurdles.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    



we would have loved that sort of fun.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
dpack wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
There was a row on the local XR facebook group when somebody suggested that people could use string to attach placards rather than loads of plastic tape.
One person sincerely(?!) did not understand what was wrong with using tape that they had in the cupboard... like single use plastic doesn't count if you've bought it already?


ps polyprop rope is a fossil product but it is ace for walkways, skylons and washing lines .
try digging a tunnel without metal tools.
shall we walk to that action in west wales tomorrow?
etc etc .

tell em the tape is a non issue from me.
boots on the ground are more important than bare feet at home


Not clear what point you are driving at there.
It is not that tape is an issue, only that string is an easy alternative, which is better on a number of counts.


my point is use whatever tools are available for the job that needs doing now.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35675
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

derbyshiredowser wrote:
At this point in time My mate is my proxy demonstrator and is glued to the floor. However in a strange quirk of fate my eldest is running the parks half marathon on Sunday and the demonstrators will be on the route so he was wondering if he has to jump over glued protesters would it qualify as hurdles.


i wonder if i met you or your chum in stantonia.

yesterday my chum made the mail and one of my other chums was very erudite on radio 4, perhaps the old(they are 20 yrs younger than me) are feeling that we need to come out of our retirements to a quiet life

tell your chum glue is hardcore, i'm ok with a well comfy bunker tunnel or falling off a cliff or pixie stuff but glueing my arse to something, NEVER
respect.

a lock on is ok so long as you have understood the medical implications etc but having had a glue accident when i got stuck to a rather nice and solid remploy table i will find alternative tactics thanks.

i think i hate glue more than i hate nazis

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 5421
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 19 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As an older young person with a very young offspring, I'm appreciative of anyone helping drive home the point that the world needs radical change in regards to climate policy

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 10986

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 19 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I have no objection to any form of peaceful protest. I am worried that some less peaceful protesters might jump on the bandwagon as can happen with all rather hardcore groups.

Slim, I agree that we do need to completely rethink our impact on the climate. This has been something we have been working on since we were in our early twenties, but in a quiet minor way. Some of the things like solar energy have now come to fruition, but a lot of the way we live is 'the old way', that my parents taught us, like growing our own vegetables, repairing and making our own etc.

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 6515
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 19 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
I have no objection to any form of peaceful protest.


Do you think that get's you anywhere these days? Do you think politicians care about peaceful protests, or do you think they just brush them off?

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4267
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 19 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I agree Chris,its Thursday,there has been an Extinction Rebellion protest in Smithfield meat market and the last couple of days this Climate Rebellion,are these groups completely separate?

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