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tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 23 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nicky just to be clear what is your idea of a cheap new car price?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43813
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 23 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

far simpler is an understatement

the engineering of ICE vehicles is good, but it is good to overcome the disadvantages of bang, movement, useful movement

whir, useful movement is a lot simpler and more efficient

the EV specialists are using composite bodies, good batteries good motors and good control gear
they are a mixed bunch but the new "henry" will emerge* from the scramble with a practical and affordable vehicle with awesome km to kwh and longevity/repair for long enough to establish the systems and develop the next gen

the legacy ICE men are trying to electrify old concepts as they have old factories and old mindsets

* probably not tesla

later is plausibly not really an issue, so go for what ever works for you ethically and practically

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9510
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 23 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
Nicky just to be clear what is your idea of a cheap new car price?


to be clear, my view is new cars are not cheap, second hand cars are not cheap.
Cars are expensive.

I see it as a sort of oxymoron to describe a new car as cheap.

tbf I imagine the phrase 'very cheap' was used as a sort of comparison, meant to say that new EV cars are (or will be) less money to buy than new ICE cars. I have no idea - For me, new cars are so prohibitively expensive, I have not fixed the numbers in my mind, they just come under the heading 'out of the question'.

What is the difference in price between an ICE and an EV new car at the mo? How much 'cheaper' are we looking at, in actual money? I mean obviously if new EVs work out to be cheaper than second hand ICE cars that would be good.....

one person's 'cheap' is another person's 'out of the question'.

Will second hand EVs, say 4+ years old also be 'cheaper' than their ICE counterparts?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 23 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

So in your circumstances the price of a new car is irrelevant. At the moment EVs are a bit more than petrol/diesel equivalents but that’s to do with high demand and supply constraints. As I indicated earlier Tesla have made huge price cuts now that their production is better aligned to demand. My brother’s had a tesla for 6 years now, I believe he’s only had it serviced once in more than 100,000 miles. It’s maintenance free compared to a petrol or diesel.

The infrastructure will catch up and prices will ultimately be cheaper than something with an engine and gearbox in it because there are hardly any moving parts in comparison.

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9510
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 23 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
So in your circumstances the price of a new car is irrelevant. At the moment EVs are a bit more than petrol/diesel equivalents but that’s to do with high demand and supply constraints. As I indicated earlier Tesla have made huge price cuts now that their production is better aligned to demand. My brother’s had a tesla for 6 years now, I believe he’s only had it serviced once in more than 100,000 miles. It’s maintenance free compared to a petrol or diesel.

The infrastructure will catch up and prices will ultimately be cheaper than something with an engine and gearbox in it because there are hardly any moving parts in comparison.

I hope you are right about prices being ultimately cheaper, it is bound to be messy as we change over and things rebalance.

Prices of new EVs will be relevant to me, as I expect them to be reflected in the secondhand market, although other factors unique to EVs may affect secondhand prices.

I am surprised re your brother's tesla and the very little servicing, as I have consistently read that whilst EVs are recommended to be serviced at twice the usual ( ICE) interval, that still means approx every 18k miles. But I guess it is a choice, just as it is with ICE cars. [/i]

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27822
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 23 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There's a remarkable Honda Van that might be priced at below the $7,500 tax credit in the USA.
Okay it's made in China and so no ones going to actually get paid to buy one.
But it's indicative of what's possible.
In other notes the MG4 is the UK at about £26,000 probably isn't going to make a lot of people say affordable! Look at reviews of that.
Now look at reviews of the BYD Seal which this year is going to be £26,000.
The specifications are leagues apart. The MG4 suddenly looks appalling in comparison.
Then consider this is only 2023, things are just getting started.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 23 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

From Tesla website:


Brake fluid health check every 2 years (replace if necessary).
A/C desiccant bag replacement every 6 years.
Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter
Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first

That's it.

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9510
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 23 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

so various stuff needs checking/ changing every 2 years. Which is what RAC say too.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 23 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Brake fluid check every two years that’s ever so slightly less than an ICE. I’ve never had a cabin air filter replaced, have you?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 23 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://electrek.co/2023/01/23/tritium-ev-dc-fast-chargers/

Just one charging network

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27822
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 23 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The state of the charging network leaves much to be desired if you don't have a Tesla.
Seems to be a land grab by start ups that are unable to maintain things.
If ever there was a case for a nationalised effort it would be a unified plan on how people are going to charge cars.
But then this is the Tories, they are still busy obstructing renewables.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45082
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 23 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jema wrote:
If ever there was a case for a nationalised effort it would be a unified plan on how people are going to charge cars.
But then this is the Tories, they are still busy obstructing renewables.


Yep

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27822
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 23 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://carnewschina.com/2023/02/08/wuling-bingo-officially-unveiled-in-china-will-launch-at-end-of-march/

just another example of what's coming. Been a whole rash of these cars that would cover most peoples needs most of the time at very sane prices.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 14819

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 23 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It is possible for that price in China. Will it be possible to build in the rest of the world? If so, the prices are coming within manageable range for a new car, and it would put them withing reach of the new car general market with second hand ones coming through in a few years.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27822
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 23 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It's part of the general trend downwards.

So another announcement yesterday was that the MG4 which is about £26,000 will get a revamp this year that will involve a bigger battery with considerably more range.

As for when the competition really hots up in the west? I'd say probably not this year. The main companies are still able to sell anything they make and sometimes still at crazy premium prices.

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