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Wood yield
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thos



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1137
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-a)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 11:12 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

dougal wrote:
In the UK, there are favourable tax considerations given to ownership of commercial woodland.
These tend to increase the 'worth' of woodland.
Are there any such additional factors in Belgium? (Apart from tax, what about grants, subsidies, incentives...?)


There are loads of different subsidies for everything. Unfortunately they all work by reducing income tax. And I don't pay income tax, just all the other taxes.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Wood yield Reply with quote    

Looks kind of scrubby from that image, so the forage there could be quite good. What's on the surrounding land? What kind of trees predominate? What's the undergrowth like? What kind of soil? Any water courses on it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to figure some things out for foraging on it; there may not be much there you want to forage for yet, but you can work on that.

thos



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1137
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-a)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Wood yield Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Looks kind of scrubby from that image, so the forage there could be quite good. What's on the surrounding land? What kind of trees predominate? What's the undergrowth like? What kind of soil? Any water courses on it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to figure some things out for foraging on it; there may not be much there you want to forage for yet, but you can work on that.


I've only seen it on the website. I was only wondering whether I should bother going to see it or not. At 7.80 per m it works out at quite a premium over pasture, which the same Estate Agent is offering at 4.44 per m (6,000 for 13.5 Are).

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Having looked into this a bit myself I'll post up some more comments tonight. One thing to remember is will other people take a liking to the wood and move in or just help themselves? If you don't get there that often you may not be able to keep an eye on things.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That Chalet bit- could it be done up with an earth loo for 'back to nature' paying guests to use? Taking just two or three bookings a year from people who want a bit of peace and quiet for a week but want something different to a tent might be enough to cover the costs, you could be very selective who you let it to so as not to allow any undue damage to the plot? Just a thought. I have seen similar cabins advertised in 'alternative' publications as an ideal, low impact holiday destination, and people seem perfectly happy to shell out for the privelege of enjoying the surroundings and taking all their litter away with them at the end of the week.

thos



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1137
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-a)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Having looked into this a bit myself I'll post up some more comments tonight. One thing to remember is will other people take a liking to the wood and move in or just help themselves? If you don't get there that often you may not be able to keep an eye on things.


I thought of that, especially if the price of wood goes up (I'm not talking post-apocalypse here). A chained gate should keep out most of the undesirables. There are lots of other woods around if people want to be naughty.

thos



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1137
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-a)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sally_in_wales wrote:
That Chalet bit- could it be done up with an earth loo for 'back to nature' paying guests to use? Taking just two or three bookings a year from people who want a bit of peace and quiet for a week but want something different to a tent might be enough to cover the costs, you could be very selective who you let it to so as not to allow any undue damage to the plot? Just a thought. I have seen similar cabins advertised in 'alternative' publications as an ideal, low impact holiday destination, and people seem perfectly happy to shell out for the privelege of enjoying the surroundings and taking all their litter away with them at the end of the week.


Despite the picture, the 'chalet' is 12m, which to me is a shed! It may be possible to replace it with something bigger, but it would probably not pay.

There would be no heating, so it would be for mid-summer use only. I could perhaps build a brick stove outside ... Put up a shelter for bicycles ...

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 05 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You need to take care with figures for wood fuel. I've seen more traditional numbers around 7-10 acres for a 4 bed house. Well managed coppice may well require much less land and a well insulated house would get the number down again.

Remember with coppice there may not be usable fruits or much else. In the UK I think it could would be hard to turn a mature woodland into coppice unless it is a site of old coppice. If you wish to fell mature broadleaved trees you usually have to re-plant with the same type of tree.

The best return I have seen from woodland is selling some of the mature trees for timber if there are any suitable, felling licences permitting.

Looking at the price, for 0.8 of an acre, it seems to be aim mainly at recreational use. Camping, bushcraft, bbq etc. Do you plan to keep it for a long time of for a while and sell on? Are there any tax breaks on wood and woodland products like there are in the UK?

I hope I've not put you off, everyone who can should own some woodland IMHO.

Anders



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Anyone here do coppicing for firewood?

We might be getting 1 hectare of coppiced wood (I think its chestnut). It hasn't been coppiced for years and needs some clearing up though. So we thought we might want to introduce some new faster growing trees as we will struggle to get enough wood out of 1 hectare. Could anyone tell me which kind would produce good firewood in a good time? Is ash a good choice?

Anders

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44144
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

ASh or birch will both grow quite quickly as will willow

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Figures, even very rough ones are impossible to get at, everything depends on what your land is like, local climate, expected inputs (time/labour/money), anticipated outputs (fuel/food/herbs etc)....

I'd say that a 2 acre woodland where I live could feasibly fuel you and go a large way to feeding you


Tahir,

Is that per person (which I think was the rough number on the how much land per person to be self-sufficientish), or per family unit (of say 4 or 5)?


Peter.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44144
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm talking about a superinsulated house with solar water heating and perhaps 4 occupants. Obviously they'd all be prepared to eat "differently" cos it wouldn't all be "normal" fruit or veg, and the labour involved might end up being quite high.

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
I'm talking about a superinsulated house with solar water heating and perhaps 4 occupants. Obviously they'd all be prepared to eat "differently" cos it wouldn't all be "normal" fruit or veg, and the labour involved might end up being quite high.


Indeed, if we're going to be self-sufficientish in this country, it's not going to be a lot of "normal fruit and veg"

Is the labour mainly harvesting? or something else?



Peter.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44144
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sowing, harvesting, weeding, processing

e.g. maple syrup, obviously an easy crop you plant the tree and come back a few years later for the syrup, well kind of but: you need to make sure the tree stays healthy, you need to harvest the sap, you need to process that into syrup, you need to bottle and store it.

Doesn't sound like a lot but the processing could take up a full day for just a few trees.

Similarly I've harvested seed off loads of stuff this year but just getting into a fit state to store has so far proved beyond me.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 05 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Anders wrote:
Could anyone tell me which kind would produce good firewood in a good time? Is ash a good choice?


I would have thought sticking with the chestnut would the best bet. Cutting it back it should shoot back very quickly as the stool and root structure is already in place. Look after the new shoots and you will have several new trunks growing. If you plant new trees all you'll get is a single trunk until the first coppice. Do you have any local coppice groups who can advise?

If there are large gaps then something like ash would be good if the soil suits it, seems to grow in most places. You will probably need to protect the new trees from deer and rabbits. Ash is one of the best firewoods and can be burnt unseasoned if you need to (not sure if this will produce more tar though?). There are other faster growing trees available but take care as some are not very good firewood. Poplar will grow very fast but apparently gives off little heat.

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