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rimfires .22 or .17
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shaun



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 9:46 am    Post subject: rimfires .22 or .17 Reply with quote
    

Iam in the process of applying for my FAC, although a lifelong shotgunner i thought its about time (and i have the need due to vermin control problems) to get a rifle. Like most my shooting career started with air rifles so i am familiar with handling rifles, setting up 'scopes, safe backgrounds etc. What i am looking for is some recomendations for either .17 rifles (which i prefer) or .22 as long as the model is value for money and has a good trigger.

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42207
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Just so you realise this isn't being ignored. Deerstalker, who is our resident expert on these matters isn't around at the moment. I'm sure he'll present you with a cogent answer on the pros and cons of your choices when he gets back.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

What sort of animal are you going to shoot and at what sort of range? I am in a similar situation, although I plan to apply for a FAC and shotgun cert at the same time.

As far a I can gather the most popular .17 is the .17HMR round. It seems to fly quite flat and accurately, according to the stats. However, many people say that, as the bullet is very light, it is affected far more by winds or even a blade of grass.

A .22 rimfire is a more traditional round, but some feel this doesn't have as much energy to kill a rabbit at a reasonable range.

The favourite seems to be one of the .22 centre fire calibres with an appropriate weighted bullet for the target.

There are several shooters who'll hopefully be along a little later, let us know how you get on.

shaun



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rabbits will be the main quarry with the occasional fox when the need arises. When i spoke to the man from BASC for a bit of advice he said that most Police forces prefer the .17 as it disintigrates on deflection so in theory an be a safer round.

anneka



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 6:21 pm    Post subject: firearms choice Reply with quote
    

You should use a .223 for a fox - I use .22 rimfire for rabbits - plenty effective it makes a big difference what kind of ammunition you use.

Deerstalker will be along later and give you his (very comprehensive) advice. I would be wary of general police reccomendations without talking to someone who really understands ballistics though - i.e. DS. Sorry I can't help more all the best.

Anneka

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I don't think you can use .17 or .22 rimfire rifles on foxes, it would be worth checking with BASC on that.

If you have a good reason for the FAC I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem getting a .22 cetre fire rifle, provided you have somewhere to use it. It does depend a fair bit on your location.

shaun



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I have read on a web site linked to yorkshire shootin supplies of an american who swears by the .17 for fox control. Plus there was a keeper that once wrote in sporting shooter that he had shot a fox with a .22 but he did state that range was an issue. With regards to the .17 for rabbits, if all the hype is to be beleived it shoots further and flatter than the .22 so it should be a handy tool in the right hands.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 04 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I wouldn't necessarily use examples from the USA. Different laws, animals, etc.

If the police are happier for people to own a .17 due to the bullets fragmenting easily, then they will probably disintegrate far to soon to kill a fox outright and instantly.

A .17 may be very accurate in ideal conditions, but you don't often get them. I've not used one but I did think it would be ideal for me as a target and rabbit rifle. I've changed my mind now because of what I've read.

Smudge



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 6
Location: North East
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 05 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I would go for a .17 as .22 bullets are very dodgey for recoshaying (dunno if thats how its spelt).

shaun



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 05 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Taking on board what advice has been offered i will be asking for a .22 rimfire as rabbits will be the main quarry so i will not be requiring a centre fire just yet. But no-one has answered the second part of my question for the recomendation of a good value for money, accurate rifle with a decent trigger. Most advice to date is to avoid semi-autos and stick to a bolt action. i fancy an anshutz or sako finnfire but will listen to any good advice.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 05 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I would suggest the .17HMR Shaun. I, like you, have shot all my life with airguns. I then progressed to .22 rimfire semi auto, 12 bore, and .17hmr. I currently shoot with all of the above. The .22 is rubbish for rabbits unless you get a nice clean head shot. It has probs with trajectories too, big curve, and almost every miss is a ricochet, which I hate. This is with hollow points as well as solid points. However, the .17 HMR has a polymer tip, and as already discussed, fragments on impact. Check out VarmintAl.com for detailed info. This tiny little bullet makes MASSIVE damage to a rabbit. Hit it anywhere in teh body and it dies first round. Typically, a large part of the bunny will be missing or spread around the area. The Police will only le you have it in bolt action and max ten shot round, because it is so much more serious than the .22. The trajectory of the round is joy, you can zero at 50 yards and have a point of impact at 200 yards only half an inch from teh point of aim!!...It really is a beauty. Only problem is, compared to a silenced .22, it's bloody loud!!

I use a BRNO (CZ) .17 HMR with bipod as it's teh heavy barreled version, with a T5 moderator and rather stupidly large scope, due to teh extended ranges that you can shoot at with it. Don't take it out in the wind though, use the .22 for that!....Hope this helps.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 05 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

sorry, the address is www.varmintal.net

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 05 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm almost embarrassed to answer!...I know my figures are out of kilter with the published trajectory charts and data from manufacturers, however it remains true. The magazine, "Target Shooter" is planning an article on me and my riflr. We are just waiting for fine weather so I can go to Minsterley Ranges to run a comparison of .22 against .17hmr on 50 and 100 yard ranges.

I agree with Shaun that the damage caused is considerable. Head shot a rabbit at 100 yards, and there is only a flap of skin left.

Lloyd

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 05 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

of the head that is

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 05 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Now you're being silly. I wouldn't go below a .275 for large deer, but for rabbit, most 'keepers I work with agree the .17 HMR is the only bullet to work with. Foxes or in your case, deer, are a seperate matter.

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