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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 15 10:53 am Post subject:

do the seven sisters have a calculator in the accounts department that goes as small as thousands?

english heritage has lost it's quango status and funding and now hopes to run on a charitable/commercial basis.

the most recent legacy problems from coal can mostly be laid at the door of the residuary body and a few company insurers.those from mines that were pre nationalisation might be harder to charge for.

the new companies that have been set up to provide a firebreak between risk and profit to conduct extreme energy extraction might work very effectively if any major problems occur.with a well failure rate of around 1% there will be a significant number or problems some of which might be serious.

i accept a 30 yr bridge between now and the necessary 100% renewable/zero carbon/non fission energy supply but i would rather pump out the selby field and cut coal in one place (co2 capture might be possible and powerstation scrubbers are much better than in the past) to provide a short term supply than drill thousands of short term wells that will spread the risks geographically and historically.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4632
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 15 2:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks James,interesting facts,
These break outs you mention,presume from the older pre NCB mines,mainly drifts on the outcrops?

The fines in the waste tips you describe sounds more like waste from washeries than actual colliery waste tips of underground waste.

The problem you mention regarding aquifers is a bigger problem in my view than any that could be caused by fracking in Mining area`s.

Which 2 water company area`s are these major problems occurring?

Which coalfield area`s do you work in outside Yorkshire and Notts?

cassandra

Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1733
Location: Tasmania Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 15 11:16 pm Post subject:

It's great to see the UK EPA is doing such a good job of monitoring this issue. Clearly you provide a better service than that in Australia. Renewable energy is being developed at such a rapid rate (and battery technology seems to be matching that rate these days) that you really do have to wonder why our governments invest so much energy and financial resource into propping up these fossil fuel options.

The CSIRO here recently developed a concentrator technology that allows solar to generate the sorts of energy required by industry, but sadly our present regressive government has cut funding to that particular research path.

There does seem to be a body of evidence that suggests that methane release from these drill sites is at a very high level - both during operation and subsequent to closure. Given methane's contribution to anthropogenic climate change, this is quite alarming!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 15 7:50 am Post subject:

cassandra wrote:

Renewable energy is being developed at such a rapid rate (and battery technology seems to be matching that rate these days) that you really do have to wonder why our governments invest so much energy and financial resource into propping up these fossil fuel options.

Is it? Having been looking into a couple of renewable projects things don't seem to have advanced all that much over the last 10 years and I can't see much improvement in the short term either. Then you look at the pollution and impact of something like lithium production and think is it much better than fracking?

cassandra

Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1733
Location: Tasmania Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 15 9:30 pm Post subject:

I see you are a 'glass half empty' sort of a guy, lol.

Try these on for size

https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2014/Supercritical-solar-new-frontier-for-power-generation

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-09/printable-solar-panels-one-step-closer-to-market/5731628

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/194313-the-netherlands-has-laid-the-worlds-first-solar-road-we-go-eyes-on-to-investigate

https://www.treehugger.com/wind-technology/beautiful-wind-turbine-trees-generate-clean-energy-urban-environments.html

https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/11/8023443/tesla-home-consumer-battery-elon-musk

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 10:07 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The breakouts may well be from pre-NCB days.

The waste is a combination of very fine grained washing filter cake and courser inter-burden

Sorry, probably not appropriate to discuss exactly which water co's

I use to work for a company that did the waste water treatment in some open cast around Cannock, but now I just deal with Notts / Yorks.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 10:13 am Post subject:

cassandra wrote:

It's great to see the UK EPA is doing such a good job of monitoring this issue. Clearly you provide a better service than that in Australia.

Yes, I've worked in Perth and I recon our environmental regulation is more advanced than Aus.
I only worked in WA, so can't speak for the other states.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 2:07 pm Post subject:
Regardless of contamination can we afford to waste the water when so much of the South East is struggling to maintain supplies? Water Use for Fracking Has Skyrocketed, USGS Data Show.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 2:14 pm Post subject:

cassandra wrote:

I see you are a 'glass half empty' sort of a guy, lol.

Not really, just a guy looking into doing a few things and finding little has changed since the last time I looked a few years back.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 2:17 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Regardless of contamination can we afford to waste the water when so much of the South East is struggling to maintain supplies?
Water Use for Fracking Has Skyrocketed, USGS Data Show.

Water is used in more arid areas than anywhere in the UK to produce many of the elements used for making renewables.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44397
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 15 4:43 pm Post subject:
many of the rare earth elements in "green" or mainstream electrical tech are far less ethical than the lithium for batteries.that said lithium extraction is a bit messy but if battery tech evolves as fast as it has been doing for a few more years and the lithium content is recycled the "damage"might well be less than that from continued fossil use

cassandra

Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1733
Location: Tasmania Australia

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 15 1:03 am Post subject:

James, I think the problem in Oz is political intervention. Our PS is not separate from the politicians, but headed by an appointee of the government of the day.

I have worked in EPA in Queensland, and Planning in NSW and I know that my colleagues are dedicated intelligent, informed individuals who make solid practical recommendations to their seniors. It gets diluted on the way up the food chain until what comes out at the top bears little resemblance to what went in at the bottom.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16507

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 15 6:56 am Post subject:

We have a problem with water round here in the same way Cassandra. Our aquifer is very large and supplies a pretty wide geographical area. The govenment has said that lots more houses have to be built in our county, but Ofwat have said that the very large new reservoir that has been planned by our water company for well over 50 years cannot be built as it is not needed. We may have an interesting situation where new houses cannot get mains water because there is no storage, not no water. Individual wells are not an option as they would have to be well over 100ft and the cost would be prohibative.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 15 7:19 pm Post subject:

Even if the government has said 'we need lots of new houses here', that doesn't mean anything, & OFWAT can't take it into account when doing there resource demand forecasts. There needs to be proof of demand before OFWAT will recognise it. In other words, the developments need planning permission.
Which is tough on the water companies. Let's say it takes 10 years to design & build a resevoir, and 8 years from planning to the first bits of the new town being lived in: there's a 2 year gap that somehow needs filling. Chuck into the mix the fact that the average UK water consumption is rising fast, erratic rainfall is becoming the norm and useable new water sources are all but non existant in southern Engand and you've got a perfect storm.

Ahhh....the joys of a privatised country.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35139
Location: Devon

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 15 11:50 pm Post subject:

James wrote:

And we see the result of the water companies being hamstrung. It must be very frustrating!

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