relaxing pollution enforcement, with fishy update

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relaxing pollution enforcement, with fishy update
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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 23 10:33 pm Post subject:
the side orders are interesting as well

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 24 2:40 am Post subject:

scum on water

in other news even the BBC's Look North reported citizen testing of the water/mud which has escaped the river into the city streets and parks for months, it has dangerous levels of coliforms(including E. coli strains, crypto etc) no need to test for all the other components of untreated sewage if those show in large amounts
the Ouse in York's total O2 level and BOD have gone from pollution cat 2.5 a few years ago to cat 4 to 5 as a base level(0 is pristine, 5 is open sewer)
there was some overspill in flood conditions, now it seems most of the load is discharged untreated into the river as normal practice and even more when it floods

hint it "floods" quite a lot even when it isn't raining much, when it does rain and flood it is worse

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 24 9:42 am Post subject:

The performance of the sewage disposal companies (which is the aspect here and some water providers don't do both) is abysmal. This has been exacerbated by the takeovers which have sometimes lumbered the company with the massive loan debt used to buy the company. Imo, the only way to sort this mess out is to renationalise them. The nationalised system worked as long as it was properly funded, but often wasn't.

This was not the best way to deal with the situation by the EA and Ofwat. Discussions are needed between them, but an ordinary meeting would have looked less like them cosying up to the sewage companies. The prices quoted are high, but not outstandingly so for London I wouldn't think. A daytime meeting with a cup of tea and a biscuit might have been very much more appropriate though.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 24 9:15 am Post subject:

back in "fresh water" the concerned citizens(a technical term i use for the full range of environmental activists) have used basic sampling and science to demonstrate the official"no problems are detected"theme which has been the EA and water monopolists defence of the indefensible over a decade or more of increasing water degradation

there are probably some in the EA who do want to try to reduce the harms, they have been underfunded and undermined by government to the point where they have few resources even if they have the will to enforce the inadequate, but what we have, regs on discharges to waterways(and other forms of poisoning the place, critters and us
for instance, ongoing and legacy waste disposal issues that are far more serious than a very visible old kitchen strewn along a lane)

evidence is evidence which is far more use than "we do not see anything(cos we did not look)"

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 24 9:35 am Post subject:

While it is more difficult and requires specialist equipment or money to pay for the analysis, I think it would be stronger evidence if certain chemicals were found in the river water. Higher levels of nitrogen, phosphorus and other pollutants found below than above discharges would show exactly how much they are putting into the river.

I also wish that the papers would understand that Avon means river, but that is being a bit pedantic.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 24 10:25 am Post subject:

O2and BOD(fermented water) are pence a go as wet chemistry

a pre loved HPLC and some consumables/standards is not daft money, per test it is not expensive

a lab could do pro bono for little more than the time involved, i could set up a garage lab for less than a few grand

npk ,O2, basic microbiology and a selection of likely organics is pretty easy to check in aquatic environmental samples

larger life forms needs little more than a net, sieves, waders and a microscope etc
this interweb thing will help with how to and why for the new to the game
basic analysis for common pollutants and probable "odd ones" is within well-informed citizen capacity
the historians can play context with old records etc
and so on

it would be better to have a well resourced big toothed official regulator with extensive monitoring and zero tolerance to polluters, that would make being clean the best option
we haven't at the mo, evidence and loud pointing from concerned citizens is a tactic that is legal and at the least troublesome to the polluter at best very troublesome for the polluter

after the event is too late, make polluting very expensive, financially and personally for company decision makers and for the shareholders, and difficult to do in secret or in full view with no chance of a meaningful rebuke which make it the most profitable option

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8621
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 24 10:27 am Post subject:
Avon= afon ( Cymraeg) and abhainn (GÃ idhlig) both have the "V" sound like f in of. Wye also means water ..same root as Dwr and Uisge. It is heartbreaking how the Thames has degenerated..my cycling club president in the 70s had the work achievement of getting salmon back in the river, and other fish...I doubt that they are there now

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45434
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 24 11:14 am Post subject:
I hope Labour start the process of renationalising basic utilities.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 24 12:34 pm Post subject:

best part of 50 yrs a river i know well has gone from cat 5 = dead in any good way, via cat 1 to 2= not pristine wilderness but a healthy ecosystem with a bottom to top food chain with heron, kingfisher, brown trout or grayling at the top depending on the oxygenation from the shape and flow and the local ecosystem

and back to cat 5 dead from a combo of unregulated chem peeps having "incidents", assorted one off "private" misdemeanours and systematic discharges as that is cheaper than providing the sewerage services in the contract they have with the citizens
=================================
other aquatic issues

re "well meaning" but not like that
2 mink* a mile did not help my well known river,

but it was healthy enough to support them and retain a full range aquatic ecosystem, although that was not "natural" after 150 years of human challenges

if i ever find out who "liberated" 9000 of the fluffy monsters, they have a problem

during the last few years of mink farm licences and objections to the trade, i was part of the anti mink thing to ensure no fool turned any loose
the wpc trying to be "nice" while we all had lunch, was quite surprised that cute and fluffy was not on my agenda, no vermin by any means was not the reasoning she had been briefed for

not on my watch, those things are ok in the middle of arboreal wetland wilderness a long way away, anywhere else they are usually dangeroos vermin
hey ho, the pollution will kill their food, which should thin them out,
i should have got a few hats when i could

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 24 8:40 am Post subject:

Mink are vicious things. Some people from the animal management course in the next building to the forestry course our son was on at college did work experience at a wildlife park where they had mink in a secure house. The house had two parts so the mink could be isolated in one part while the other was cleaned. They were warned to always make sure all the mink were isolated before opening as they would bite badly as soon as look at you. Letting mink out was an ecological disaster, and shows what damage well meaning but uninformed idiots can do.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 29, 24 6:18 pm Post subject:
i would rather share trout and grayling and ignore the duck genocide than see a river that had been made almost clean an open sewer again otters and beavers have no tolerance of mink, far less smelly and bitey as well we are stuck with some mink, few might fit into the ecosystem many do not its hat time if you know of any

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 24 8:16 am Post subject:
No water near us, so no mink to the best of my knowledge. Agree, we have gone backwards on pollution as well as other things.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 24 2:34 pm Post subject:

wye

if they are improving matters why is the wye declining?

the motives of wwf quietly dropping that report and tesco sponsoring "cute" projects could be open to several interpretations, some less than charitable options are on the list

in other river news, the Test is almost entirely degraded, including some serious one off incidents as well as the SW systemic sewage discharges which include the Test but cover many rivers and beaches

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 24 2:30 am Post subject:
the organizers are advising to wash yer face when there are straw boaters on the river Last edited by dpack on Wed Mar 27, 24 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 24 2:47 am Post subject:

considering my advice to a random group of scouting canoeists exiting the local river was"time for tea, buns and broad spectrum antibiotics"

and

our local citizen scientists have found coliforms and worse in the river and in the flood mud, which is extensive from the river and also from becks, drains etc, neither a stroll with the mutt(see local vet anecdotes etc) nor water based activities are biologically "safe"

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