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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46168
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 24 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

the same pattern with decent bike batteries, the second and subsequent generations seem to last well and have few early failures

cheap ones still fail rapidly but gradually or worse fail suddenly in upsetting ways (see cheap bikes and "custom kits" to "upgrade"cheap bikes, scooters and suchlike have similar problems at the bottom end of the market) such as exploding while charging and with some tweaked ones pulling enough current to explode in use

first gen bus batteries were a bit burny compared to those of a decade later, they often held less energy than was required for the day and often less than it said on the specs

of the 4 first gen batteries, one failed in infancy, 2 of the others were still 70%+ viable after ten years and the other was down to about 35% stated capacity(the bikes had multiple age/hard use issues)
the modern ones are about ten yrs old and as good as new for practical purposes

car and large batteries have been in the gen two specs for a while, the new ones are far better for kwh per kilo, long lasting(longer than the structure and mechanicals of a hard used vehicle) and have far less firey chemistry

battery reliability and safety is no longer an issue with decent quality manufacture, cheap*carp will always be troublesome be it an ev or equadorean hair curling tongs, not us a colleague of tt's, saved £100+, plugged em in, applied normal fire fighting procedures and threw the blazing mass out of a window i had the good sense to use my £12, electric, 20" PISSA PAN, with added comedy user manual for humorous effect and never plugged it in
the manual has gems such as "place thumb over intimate orifice while cleaning, otherwise the unit may be out of service or on fire" and other wise advice
*(or expensive carp, several models of lambos and porches have a slightly dubious rep for being upside down and on fire )

re ev batteries, the recent responsibly made ones seem reliable and safe, the emerging ones are reliable safe and have a lot more kwh/k

gz



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8879
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 24 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
It's a shame so many are so big.


It is...but in his case he needs to access off road places, and also needs the extra clearance...so his SUV isn't entirely luxury.
He does have an electric bike...and was a track cyclist in the top echelons for England and Britain...

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 24 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

gz wrote:
It is...but in his case he needs to access off road places, and also needs the extra clearance...so his SUV isn't entirely luxury.
He does have an electric bike...and was a track cyclist in the top echelons for England and Britain...


There are always cases where it's the best or only option, but it's our general obsession with massive cars that's mystifying

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46168
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 24 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

sometimes an off-road vehicle does need to be big for assorted reasons, leccy is better than gallons per mile muscle blocks to give motive power for off-road(and the bits on roads)

ps if you are going fast enough and have front/sump armour, vertical clearance is less of a problem than other things

no suv is ideal for urban
some are better than others if the road is less than tidy or safe, ditto many dedicated off-road machines which often have one small problem that is special to them, like being upside down or looking for a rare breakable spare in the wilds or not being good with mudsandrocksslopes or whatever

as to a vehicle to get there, wherever there may be, many of the best are not huge or power hungry or marketed for the job off the line, some need few adaptations apart from driving style

same chances as ice that with EVs some of the "reasonably priced" "family/ trade" "general purpose" runabouts are pretty good off-road even without tweaks

until folk try RP ev cars in the real world we do not know which might be ideal for "rugged"

tis odd where a fiesta, panda or transit can go with a bit of care older vehicles are available as examples

i could go on about off-road bikes of various sorts
big and powerful is horrid, agile and easy to control is ideal
"can i pick me and it up if needs be?"

off road, not heavier than you and what you need to shift is optimal
for me a Czech 125 and me and a half me of climbing tat for load wt went places some would find more than a challenging walk
and was more reliable in a blizzard over Shap than the big Norton in a start together, one retired sort of way

a honda C90 is rather good on squelchy or lumpy and can jump, that jump thing surprised me as well

assorted evs will turn out to have surprising abilities that make cruder but deliberate ones redundant
darwin applies to evolving tech as well as to lifeforms

whatever the style or requirements, EV gets my vote, good ones or disappointing ones are both good, this part of the process towards no ice is the same as buggy to ice, carp will fail and useful will thrive

if the producers provide lots of ev styles, a few will work well, but not always the way they were marketed
some will be ace in rough circumstances for rp vehicles sold for "domestic needs" even without tweaks

the big and deliberate hare is often beaten by an accidental tortoise off-road

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28227
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 24 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Big was a thing because of battery size.
BYD's announcement of 190wh/kg has now been upstaged by CATL announcing a 204wh/kg LFP battery, BYDs is LMPF.
Perhaps that implies combining both tech would see even better?
At any rate it's perhaps the point where an EV with decent ranges can be the same weight and size as an ICE car and with further advance an EV can be anything we can imagine.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15932

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 24 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Agree with you about off road. I understand a 2CV can jump fox holes, but had to go in for a rewelded chassis. There are some circumstances where a larger vehicle is needed; we need them to access the woods which can be quite a trial even for a SUV in 4 wheel drive in wet weather. The old UV was rather better, but gave up the fight after 20 years. Glad to say it has been passed on to a friend who's brother is a welder and has managed to fix all the rather expensive work needed, so it could be on the road again soon.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 24 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/iea-report-claims-batteries-are-changing-the-game

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 24 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

“Just in England and Wales, there are approximately 20 million houses. If each one had one kilowatt hour of energy storage, that would add 20 gigawatts of energy storage capacity to the UK grid.”

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/in-depth/why-uk-firm-superdielectrics-is-hailing-an-energy-storage-breakthrough/

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46168
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 24 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

only if the grid and switch gear is available and made attractive

political will etc or good business? the latter can be more reliable

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28227
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 24 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm a massive advocate of batteries, I see no reason why most homes couldn't have a 10kwh sodium battery if not more.
Probably 30% of housing could be self sufficient all year round on solar and battery.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15932

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 24 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

An interesting article Tahir. Leasing batteries of that sort and possibly selling them if people liked them would make economic sense for the company and the consumer.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6609
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 24 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The only thing I don't like about residential batteries is that sooner or later many homes are going to have even larger batteries parked outside of them for huge chunks of time. One of my criteria in EV shopping is V2L capability. It seems silly to me that everything isn't already setup for V2G everywhere, but I think that will be happening more and more in relatively short order, as it will be far cheaper than adding grid capacity in other ways

gz



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8879
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 24 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/quRi9FWXHso9HEyB/
An interesting explanation of batteries and recycling.. originally on tik tok...not sure how to get it visible to all.

I know it simplifies it, but facts need to be spread

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15932

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 24 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Interesting and simple, but don't think it is entirely accurate. Does make people think about recycling batteries though, which is important.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45661
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 24 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well, someone needs to do something (and fast):

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/world-scientists-climate-failure-survey-global-temperature

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