Poisonous honey

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Poisonous honey
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goosey

Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 380
Location: Merry England

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 12:24 pm Post subject: Poisonous honey
Calling all expert beeks Is it really true that privet flowers make poisonous honey? Why, woudn't it it poison the bees when they eat it? Thanks

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45511
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 12:37 pm Post subject:
I thought it was the foliage taht was poisonous, where did you hear this from? I'd have thought all back garden honey has some privet in it.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 12:39 pm Post subject:
As it is such a common plant I can't see how it could be as I imagine it will be found in just about everyones honey. I know I have a neighbor only 150m as the bee flies with a privet hedge that flowers & I've been taking my honey for 20+ years with no ill effect. Not sure if they take the nectar or pollen again I imagine if it was toxic they would leave it well alone.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 12:54 pm Post subject:
I think it's the berries which are particularly poisonous.

goosey

Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 380
Location: Merry England

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 1:35 pm Post subject:

Yes, I know the leaves are poisonous for horses, and the berries are iffy too.
I have a lot of wild privet round here and insects go on the flowers, the blackbirds eat the berries midwinter.
I am hoping (everything crossed) for bees this year, but I read the topic below;
"BEES my mentor says..." Ginko was told by someone that the honey is poisonous, ? Never heard of that myself though, so I'm just checking with the experts.

Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 1:54 pm Post subject:
Heard this,but also for bees that forage from ragwort.........but you'd have to eat a helluva lot of honey.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 3:07 pm Post subject:
A plant that poisons its pollinator wouldn't survive as a species so I very much doubt that the pollen or nectar is toxic. I know stick insects like privet!

arvo

Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 3:38 pm Post subject:

Does Ted Hooper mention it? I know there's a massive spoddy section in the book about what plants give what colour pollen so you can tell what they're browsing. Not read the Hooper for ages though so I can't swear, but I'm sure he doesn't talk about anything making your honey poisonous.

While we're on the topic of poisonous honey, under what circumstances could you wind up with botulism in it? (health visitors seem obsessed that your kids if under 12mths will catch it from honey)

I always understood that the sugar levels in honey were so high that it was essentially anti-septic.

goosey

Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 380
Location: Merry England

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 3:42 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

As it is such a common plant I can't see how it could be as I imagine it will be found in just about everyones honey.
I'vI know I have a neighbor only 150m as the bee flies with a privet hedge that flowers & e been taking my honey for 20+ years with no ill effect.
Not sure if they take the nectar or pollen again I imagine if it was toxic they would leave it well alone.

If you're ok after 20 years, that's good enough for me

goosey

Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 380
Location: Merry England

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 3:46 pm Post subject:
arvo, I know what you mean, didn't it used to be put on wounds .? It keeps the germs out, so I read once. Don't know about botulism, someone will though

goosey

Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 380
Location: Merry England

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 3:56 pm Post subject:
On the other hand, just because it doesn't harm bees, it doesn't mean it won't harm humans. They aren't making it for us.

Effie

Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 1087

Posted: Thu May 07, 09 8:31 pm Post subject:

arvo wrote:

While we're on the topic of poisonous honey, under what circumstances could you wind up with botulism in it? (health visitors seem obsessed that your kids if under 12mths will catch it from honey)

I always understood that the sugar levels in honey were so high that it was essentially anti-septic.

Ooooh, now this I do know something about. Now I can't answer the exact question, but I did read that honey as a botulism carrier risk came up in a quite old study (I think it was 1930's US) but can't be sure as this was ages ago when I researched this re kiddo.

Now they tested a whole shed load of stuff, and the risk at that point was by no means greatly more significant than things such as the lids of certain drinks bottles and some other quite mundane food related items. Well, not wanting to damage industry, the implication as I took it was that honey ended up as a bit of a scapegoat, and the risk was quite exaggerated. I believe that other EU countries ignore the below 12 months thing and don't suffer frequent peadiatric botulism.

(I am pretty sure I remember all that right, but can't be totally sure)

Edit : I've just has a quick flick of academic papers. One figure gives US infantile botulism cases as 1/3 related to honey. Apparently 6-10% US honey samples test + for botulism and it's present in about 20% of soil samples. Living in a rural location + having parents who work in contact with soil increases risk of infection. It's quite interesting actually.

Woodburner

Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri May 08, 09 9:25 am Post subject:
If we stopped eating everything the press has reported as being harmful, we'd have died out long ago from starvation!

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Sun May 10, 09 6:16 pm Post subject:

We have just had a lovely afternoon here with the local bee keepers and I was able ask Maureen about the privat again.

The flowers do make poisonous honey but if it diluted with lots of other flowers it is only slight The bees will only go to it if they are really hungry or there is no choice, in some places privat is the main plant and thats when you have to watch out.It is not poisonous to the bees.
The bees love sycamore and if there are lots around it can give the honey a green tinge, it is the concentration of one plant species that counts on how the honey is affected.

When I was a nurse 30 years ago we used honey a lot in hospitals.We would use what was called Honeytulle, gauze soaked in honey that came in flat tins which was very precious .It would be layed over the wound making sure it came into contact with the sore.As it was moist it was easy to remove when changing the dressing. It was almost miraculous in healing open wounds as it helps granulation, forming new cells under the skin layer and then helps the skin to form,while staying sterile.A dry dressing was put over the top.
We also used to use egg white and oxygen for bed sores.Put a meringue on your bottom,the extra protien would aid healing it was thought.
I loved the old fashioned nursing
.

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Sun May 10, 09 6:17 pm Post subject:
Just realised I said privat instead of privet

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